For my Florida Folks...concerning the pattern:

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wxguy25
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For my Florida Folks...concerning the pattern:

#1 Postby wxguy25 » Wed Jan 12, 2005 4:04 pm

The news isn’t all that bad.

As you are probably already aware. A s/w kicking out of the four corners region tonight and tomorrow will lift NE through the plains and into the great lakes region eventually phasing w/ the AJ over South central Canada and developing a large, cold PV near Hudson bay FRI and SAT.

But first several weaker waves of Low pressure will ride along a cold front--- anchored by a primary low located near Lake Superior late tonight and Thursday. As it progresses eastward there is going to be a pretty significant severe wx outbreak across the SRN plains/ Lower MS valley as the potent s/w (I just talked about above) kicks eastward across TX and approaches the area creating an environment favorable for large scale lift.

Image

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The 12z ETA is developing a very intense LLJ from the SRN plains to the GL region between 0z and 06z THU w/ speeds reaching 70-75 KT from MO into IN. this should help to transport moisture and instability northward ahead of the front, keeping the severe threat going well into the overnight hours and maximizing helicity values where the LLJ intersects the area w/ the greatest speed and directional shear. As a result SOME thunderstorms which develop ahead of any linear convective feature could easily rotate. Instability may be lacking somewhat, however the combination of favorable jet dynamics, increasing Low level frontogenesis / convergence, and PVA ahead of the s/w will maximize UVV ahead of the front and result in severe weather anyway.

It appears as if there WILL NOT be a significant SVR wx episode across FL given the fact that the best dynamics which will lead to the severe wx tonight and THU will push northeastward into the GL and New England. The wild card here is the ETA jumping on a piece of STJ energy which gets separated from the main s/w as it lifts out. IF this proves to be stronger, a more pronounced SFC wave could develop along the front and enhance the potential for stronger – dynamically enhanced lift ahead of the front and thusly a BETTER shot a severe wx FRI morning and early afternoon across the FL peninsula.

Image

The GFS is weaker w/ this feature which does not help w/ ironing out the uncertainties here. So for now I feel that the SVR thereat is low but if a stronger trend WRT that s/w develops in later runs, things may become dicier.

Image

That said w/ some convergence and lift ahead of the front as it sags southward across FL into an area w/ increasing theta-e and more favorable instability parameters (CAPE 250-1000 J/kg, TTs 40-50, K values > 30, LI 0 to -2, weakening CIN) the potential exists for thunderstorms w/ heavy rain given high PWs and SFC dewpoints ahead of the front increasing to 65-70 F (hmmm I THOUGHT this was JAN…lol). Instability will be mitigated significantly by pre existing cloud cover inhibiting surface heating.

The front will push into SFL/keys while becoming quasi stationary SUN and as a result low-mid level moisture should preclude the chance for a good weekend south of a TPA – MCO – DAB line. Some weak s/w energy coming across the gulf as the STJ comes to life may try to spin up additional waves of low pressure along the boundary enhancing precip potential. North of there the drier air should bleed in as high pressure slowly builds southeastward from the plains.

At this point I don’t think the crux of the cold air is going to reach SFL, but further north the low level arctic air may be able to make it down underneath the upper level flow in a weak CAD situation as a the 1040 high reaches New England funneling cold air down east of the mountains into SE GA / NE FL. This however would not reach the region until MON night and TUE.

Morale of the story for FL is colder, yes, brutal? No. but first we have to get through the SAT-MON period w/ the front getting hung up over the state.

In the longer range, the east may remain below average through the next 10 days, but the plains could warm significantly as the long wave trough slides eastward and PV moves out of Canada toward Greenland rebuilding strong +NAO.

Image
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#2 Postby wxguy25 » Wed Jan 12, 2005 5:05 pm

Had a look at the JAN GSM run and it is SIGNIFICANTLY different from the previous NOV and DEC runs WRT the placement of critical features.

As you might recall, the DEC GSM developed LARGE monstrosity of a PAC low against the N PAC SSTA and the ENSO signal which flooded north America w/ mild pacific air. This obviously did not materialize as expected.

Anyway the major change here is the JAN run is indicating the e-emergence of a –NAO during the MAR-MAY period. Now this does the east little good in MAY when it comes to snowfall potential however it could be a significant development for MAR and does fit nicely w/ the changes in the ATL SSTA profile over the last week or two.

http://ecpc.ucsd.edu/projects/GSM_home_ ... global.gif

Compare this to the idiocy depicted on the previous run:

http://ecpc.ucsd.edu/projects/GSM_home_ ... global.gif

This looks like something I would expect to see in a STRONG EL NINO winter.

The new CFS is also indicating a –NAO/AO developing in MAR:

http://www.cpc.ncep.noaa.gov/products/p ... 200Mon.gif

IF this proves to be correct—winter is going out w/ a BIG BANG in the EUS.

http://www.cpc.ncep.noaa.gov/products/p ... T2mMon.gif


As far as the Atlantic SSTA is concerned, the warm pool that was killing the winter in DEC across the central Atlantic is weakening as a result of the strong jet beating across it, and were beginning to see evidence of an SSTA tripole developing w/ a warm North Atlantic, cool wedge from the NW coast of North America into the central ATL and warm water to the south of it.

http://www.wxguy.storm2k.org/temp/newSSTA.JPG
http://www.wxguy.storm2k.org/temp/dec22ssta.JPG

It will only be a matter of time now before the NAO begins to trend negative IF the tripole continues to develop.
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#3 Postby wxguy25 » Wed Jan 12, 2005 5:15 pm

Here are temperatures anomalies across the state of FL in years w/ a –NAO in FEB.

Image

Thusly, those of you writing off winter (for absolutely no reason) in SFL may want to reconsider IF a –NAO develops in the next few weeks.
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#4 Postby wxguy25 » Wed Jan 12, 2005 5:27 pm

The NAO can have a MAJOR effect on the later half of the winter, even more significantly than the DEC – JAN period.

Here are some more SFC temp, precip and h5 composites for FEB w/ a –NAO

Notice FL was wetter than average in these years in addition to being cooler.

Image

Image

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#5 Postby Amanzi » Wed Jan 12, 2005 5:56 pm

Thanks so much for the discussion!!

Oh, I wanted to ask you, would you consider our weather more in line with the NWS from JAX or from MLB? Just wondering because most of the time we are kind of left out of the discussions..
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#6 Postby wxguy25 » Wed Jan 12, 2005 6:30 pm

I consider Flagler County to be a part of a little section of Florida I like to call EAST CENTRAL FL. I’ll have a map out w/ my geographical divisions for the state of FL later tonight.
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#7 Postby Chris the Weather Man » Wed Jan 12, 2005 6:38 pm

Great Analysis...... Now, I won't try to ruin this thread here...

But, The PV!!! Obviously, No where near a -NAO or even Neutral.... But hey, Our turn on the East will have to wait....... This winter, (I might be wrong here) looks shares some simliaries to 1982-1983.... Warm Jan, few cold shots, and Jan was Above normal... Feb 1983, Different story, all heck broke loose.... When the Arctic Air, and A strong low from the Gulf, Timing just right, and BOOM, The Blizzard of 1983, dumping 21" in 5 hours...
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#8 Postby wxguy25 » Wed Jan 12, 2005 6:59 pm

Chris the Weather Man wrote:Great Analysis...... Now, I won't try to ruin this thread here...

But, The PV!!! Obviously, No where near a -NAO or even Neutral.... But hey, Our turn on the East will have to wait....... This winter, (I might be wrong here) looks shares some simliaries to 1982-1983.... Warm Jan, few cold shots, and Jan was Above normal... Feb 1983, Different story, all heck broke loose.... When the Arctic Air, and A strong low from the Gulf, Timing just right, and BOOM, The Blizzard of 1983, dumping 21" in 5 hours...


Well there isn’t any physical similarity between 1982-83 and 2004-05. What do I mean by that? There is NO strong EL NINO. It’s possible that the actual weather could behave in a similar way but it would not be for the same reasons.
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#9 Postby Chris the Weather Man » Wed Jan 12, 2005 7:07 pm

Yes, good point.
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#10 Postby Amanzi » Wed Jan 12, 2005 8:26 pm

wxguy25 wrote:I consider Flagler County to be a part of a little section of Florida I like to call EAST CENTRAL FL. I’ll have a map out w/ my geographical divisions for the state of FL later tonight.


YIPPPIIEEEEEEEEEEEEE 8-)

Flagler realy does fall through the cracks. We have frost and freeze events more often than the Volusia area, but not as harsh or often as St.Johns.... so a map from you would be AWESOME..
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#11 Postby jdray » Wed Jan 12, 2005 9:25 pm

How about something for the inland NE FLorida counties like Clay and Putnam and Baker?

Im always way colder than JAX in winter, warmer in Summer.


JAX weather is usually pulled from NAS Jax which happens to be on a 3 mile wide St Johns River thus moderating it. All the forecasters up here focus on the area between the St Johns and the beach.


*funny thing about the First Coast Area. Daytona is adament about being in the Orlando area. Yet with the SuperBowl coming, all of a sudden its part of NE Florida. :)
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#12 Postby Wnghs2007 » Wed Jan 12, 2005 9:36 pm

Yes. And did you see the Day 10 Euro..they have a free image tonight

Image
Thanks Raleighwx for the image.

Looking Better than before...Possible 50/50 Development? Who knows, whats really exciting is the Ridge In Euro That will Develop a nice North American Block, cant see it on this image,.

Also wxguy or anyone for that matter could you point out to me which Island is Baffin Is. Thanks :)
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#13 Postby Chris the Weather Man » Wed Jan 12, 2005 9:46 pm

http://www.baffin-island-tours.com/baff ... d-map5.jpg Baffin Island is WAY north, up to the Arctic Circle...... IF thats where the PV is.
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#14 Postby wxguy25 » Wed Jan 12, 2005 10:07 pm

This is BI:

Image

Anyway, I agree strongly. IF that does become the new 50-50 low not only would I begin to discuss the possibility of a Significant east coast snowstorm since the jet won't be blasting through and we could begin to slow things down thusly increasing the potential for major phasing BUT this would prove my theory about the NAO turning Negative at the end of the month in the JAN outlook and that the SSTA configuration is becoming increasingly favorable for a -NAO in the means for FEB and MAR.

I saw hints of that development w/ the negative tilted longwave trough on the 0z run but I wasn't about to jump on it.

Just don't tell this to the 12z GFS ENSEMBLES. LOL!!
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#15 Postby BL03 » Wed Jan 12, 2005 11:03 pm

Wxguy nice posts once again.............................


I really dont feel like this winter will end in a diaster like 01-02, etc not even close and I think you feel the same.

Since half 1 is almost done .........lets see what happened and what was expected....

I remember a few forecasters calling for a slow 1st half, Below normal snowfall for coast better inland because of mix storms and lack of 50/50 low, -NAO, unfavorable sst's, etc.......... I for one thought the 1st half would be below normal here too and it is but much more than expected. So things are kind of going as planed but maybe for different reasons!

Here are some things.......

1)A very high Pos NAO was featured in DEC
Image
I dont think a lot of people thought this would happen if any..........so the results of a cold/snowy pattern took a hit hard right there in terms of history. We haven't been this close to 0 since AROUND DEC 25!
All of DEC had a +NAO and so has the 1st half of JAN.
No wonder NYC can't get snow and inland (Pocono's) has had atleast 2 significant ICE events with one major one. BOS doing well also with snow in fact above normal! 93-94 stuff.........

There is some good news I see............The storm threats were there and if the NAO was negative and we had anykind of Greenland blocking ......the NE would be doing good at the least...... SO if the NAO does go negative which it should at least sometime this winter than the chance will be there for at least a storm or two to become speacil but the later the more time runs for people in the south. ............Anyways it would be crazy to forecast big storms now since the pattern STILL sucks but its getting there.......we hope.........lol

I think your 2nd half Jan forecast might be too quick on the -NAO but if I recall you did say it is a better chance JAN 20-25---...... Jan 25 could be the start and if it is it could be a great time a head but right now lets just get there. IMO I think FEB has to be a crazy month, if not -----------winter goes .......


2) SST's.............. they are not the best and are still not great for a strong -NAO ........also the warmer temps in C ATL are killing us....... but it might be moving on.

The plan was for slow improvement during DEC, JAN and be ready for Late Jan but the way it looks it might need a fix quick to get any locked in pattern of snowy/cold anytime soon.


There are other things that happened but these for me are the big factors.......



Oh almost forgot.............how bout the midwest...... its been thier winter so far and the inland NE (Bos, inland NY,CT even NJ) I think its time for a shift east! :wink:
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#16 Postby wxguy25 » Wed Jan 12, 2005 11:26 pm

BL03 wrote:Wxguy nice posts once again.............................


I really dont feel like this winter will end in a diaster like 01-02, etc not even close and I think you feel the same.

Since half 1 is almost done .........lets see what happened and what was expected....

I remember a few forecasters calling for a slow 1st half, Below normal snowfall for coast better inland because of mix storms and lack of 50/50 low, -NAO, unfavorable sst's, etc.......... I for one thought the 1st half would be below normal here too and it is but much more than expected. So things are kind of going as planed but maybe for different reasons!

Here are some things.......

1)A very high Pos NAO was featured in DEC
[img]http://www.cpc.noaa.gov/products/precip/CWlink/pna/nao.mrf.obs.gif[img]
I dont think a lot of people thought this would happen if any..........so the results of a cold/snowy pattern took a hit hard right there in terms of history. We haven't been this close to 0 since AROUND DEC 25!
All of DEC had a +NAO and so has the 1st half of JAN.
No wonder NYC can't get snow and inland (Pocono's) has had atleast 2 significant ICE events with one major one. BOS doing well also with snow in fact above normal! 93-94 stuff.........


Thanks for the kind words about my posts. It’s MUCH appreciated. I was one of those forecasters. I expected winter to start off slow in the EUS. It’s almost like saying that winter begins out west and then shifts eastward. With MINOR variations during the Month of DEC this has for the most part been the case. The one thing that I’ve been doing poorly w/ is the timing of these changes.

I was NOT one who anticipated the NAO positive when I released my winter outlook back in OCT and not just strongly so but in some cases (as you alluded to) “off the charts” positive. So admittedly I busted big-time on this. And there is NO fancy way of saying that. A bust is a bust. BUT leading up to the switch in the NAO in late NOV I did see it coming w/ the development of the warm pool in the central Atlantic.

The pattern has been 93-ish due to the state of the abovementioned global indices. BUT the fact that the Midwest has seen the core of the snowfall relative to normal is a testament to the state of the NAO, AO and PNA. The Midwest usually does well in years w/ a +NAO, -PNA b/c the storm track is right through the region.

There is some good news I see............The storm threats were there and if the NAO was negative and we had anykind of Greenland blocking ......the NE would be doing good at the least...... SO if the NAO does go negative which it should at least sometime this winter than the chance will be there for at least a storm or two to become speacil but the later the more time runs for people in the south. ............Anyways it would be crazy to forecast big storms now since the pattern STILL sucks but its getting there.......we hope.........lol


Agreed; the Post-xmas storm in the Northeast would have been HUGE if the NAO was negative and a 50-50 low was in place.

I think your 2nd half Jan forecast might be too quick on the -NAO but if I recall you did say it is a better chance JAN 20-25---...... Jan 25 could be the start and if it is it could be a great time a head but right now lets just get there. IMO I think FEB has to be a crazy month, if not -----------winter goes ....... 2) SST's.............. they are not the best and are still not great for a strong -NAO ........also the warmer temps in C ATL are killing us....... but it might be moving on.

The plan was for slow improvement during DEC, JAN and be ready for Late Jan but the way it looks it might need a fix quick to get any locked in pattern of snowy/cold anytime soon.


There are other things that happened but these for me are the big factors.......


That was the gist of the forecast. And that is the timeframe. The NAO will go briefly negative in the next few days as the PV reorganizes over Hudson bay, but not significantly negative. Once the PV lifts back to Greenland the NAO flips back to strongly positive. The strong North Atlantic jet has been ripping across the warm pool for over a month now, and as I outlined, an SSTA tripole is beginning to develop.

IF the upper low on the D 10 ecmwf is there and does become the 50-50 it could tighten the wavelengths significantly over the North Atlantic and FORCE the NAO negative. I think this may be a warning shot if you will---announcing the coming change although IMO those SSTAs aren’t quite there yet. We may need to give them another week or so.

The recent pattern change is the result of the MJO coming across the Equatorial PAC and spinning up the Aleutian low. NOT b/c of the north Atlantic signal but most of you know that.
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#17 Postby wxguy25 » Wed Jan 12, 2005 11:40 pm

Here are some more thoughts on the D 10 ECMWF

Image
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