Texas Legislator wants to define 'meteorologist'

[Portastorm]

I thought my chums on S2K would appreciate this article from today's newspaper about a piece of legislation filed in the Texas Legislature affecting the term "meteorologist."
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Michael (aka Portastorm)
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Chilling effect on meteorologists?
Bill causes a stir for weathercasters
By Mark Lisheron

AMERICAN-STATESMAN STAFF

Thursday, February 3, 2005

A storm, a gale force, a hurricane of ill will has lashed, battered and pounded Rep. Vicki Truitt's office since word got around this week that she wants the state to dictate what TV and radio weathercasters can call themselves. In the rather tiny hamlet of forecast folks, word has gotten around with tornado-like impact.

The bill, which has the active support of a Dallas TV meteorologist from Truitt's district, would make it a very minor crime (misdemeanor) to call yourself a meteorologist unless you meet specific academic requirements included in the bill.

The standards used by Truitt, R-Keller, are tantamount to having a four-year bachelor of science degree in meteorology and are identical to those needed to get an entry-level job with the National Weather Service. They would be the only state-set standards for meteorologists in the country, according to the National Weather Association and the American Meteorological Society.

"We do not wish to discredit anyone; this is not supposed to put anyone out of work," Truitt said. "I want the public to know if someone is or isn't a meteorologist."

The list of forecasters who wouldn't meet the standards include all of the weather people on America's national network morning programs and many of the weathercasters in Texas, including Troy Kimmel, the dean of meteorologists in Austin. Kimmel, chief meteorologist for several radio stations, teaches weather courses at the University of Texas and has served on national meteorology associations but has an undergraduate degree in geography, not meteorology, from Texas A&M University.

"There has been a huge line drawn in the sand by these meteorologists," Meghan Danahey, the weather anchor at KAUZ-TV in Wichita Falls, whose angry parents live in Truitt's district. The meterologists "think we're a bunch of crackerjacks. They don't like us because we didn't take calculus."

Truitt says she has only one motive for the bill: the safety of the public. The very real possibility exists that some unqualified person, calling himself or herself a meteorologist, might someday misinterpret meteorological data in a weather emergency and lead the public into danger, Truitt said.

Bunk, said an incredulous and proud Kimmel on Tuesday. Kimmel has a seven-page résumé, covering almost 25 years of continuing education in meteorology.

"This is just faulty legislation," Kimmel said. "There has never been a public safety problem, and if we cannot identify a problem, then there's no need for the legislation."

Truitt acknowledged that her legislation does not stem from any specific instance of the public in peril. Nevertheless, the problem became apparent to Truitt, she said, after meeting with Rebecca Miller, who does the morning weathercasts for KXAS-TV in Dallas. Miller has a degree in meteorology from Texas A&M.

In an e-mail she sent shortly after the bill was filed, Miller asked other meteorologists to support the bill. Miller directed them to a poll on her station's web site that says: "Many TV station weathercasters call themselves meteorologists, even though they have no degree or weather training. Should anyone be able to call him/herself a meteorologist?"

"It's time meteorologists are represented fairly and accurately to the public," Miller said in her e-mail. Miller did not respond to messages asking her to comment on her involvement.

Though most broadcast weathercasters don't have four-year meteorology degrees, most have a related degree or weather training, according to Kevin Lavin, executive director of the National Weather Association in Charlottesville, Va. The association and the American Meteorological Society predicate their memberships on continued education for weathercasters, the term the association prefers because of the absence of a single standard.

Both organizations issue certificates or seals of approval that some weathercasters use to burnish their credentials. Policing standards ought to stay in the hands of professional associations, Lavin said.

Opponents don't take issue with Truitt's desire to raise professional standards but the lack of a grandfather clause would penalize hundreds of people whose experience is at least the equal of a degree, they say. Among them is Doug Gillham, a four-time winner of national collegiate forecasting competitions.

Gillham is director of a distance-learning program in broadcast meteorology at Mississippi State University. The associate degree program started in 1987 to offer training to weathercasters who had gotten into television without any.

"I'm not sure we want to have the government tell us we are committing a misdemeanor by calling ourselves meteorologists," Gillham said.

Jim Spencer, long time weathercaster for KXAN-TV in Austin, is certain public safety is not behind Truitt's bill. Spencer has, over the years, insisted that his station bill him as a weathercaster so as not to cause confusion. Still, Spencer said he is every bit as experienced, accurate and trustworthy as his degreed colleagues.

"The issue of the degree poisons the whole relationship we have in this business," Spencer said. "In my opinion, the whole thing is a joke."

mlisheron@statesman.com; 445-3663

A meteorologist?

One set of criteria and the proposal:

American

Meteorological Society

A bachelor's degree in meteorology or atmospheric science, or at least 20 semester credit hours in meteorology and at least three years in a field that requires independent analysis, interpretation and scientific judgment.

Failure to meet requirements: Individual is designated a 'weathercaster.'


House Bill 577

Graduation from a course of study in meteorology or atmospheric science, or graduation from a course in another natural science that includes courses in physics, differential equations, practical work and 24 semester hours in meteorology or atmospheric science.

Failure to meet requirements: Individual has committed a Class C misdemeanor if he or she is billed as a meteorologist.

[CaptinCrunch]

Well if that isn't the dumest bill I have ever heard!!!

[cctxhurricanewatcher]

Thank goodness the Texas Legislature only meets for 5 months every two years or we would be in some serious trouble.

Tackle bigger problems like my ever increasing property taxes.

[vbhoutex]

Thank goodness the Texas Legislature only meets for 5 months every two years or we would be in some serious trouble.

Tackle bigger problems like my ever increasing property taxes.

I understand her concern. We have a few crackpots that show up here every once in a while!

However, I am in full agreement with the above quote!!!

[Wpwxguy]

I guess when you think about it, it makes since. However, sounds to me like someone has something in their craw. Someone feels like everyone else should put as much time into their education as they have. I don't agree with that stance. Everyone has the right to choose their path of education. I don't feel unsafe....IMO

[pojo]

I support her bill. There are NUMEROUS 'so-called' mets that have only a assoc degree from Mississippi State... That really doesn't constitute a 4 year degree in Met. People who are gaining a 4 year degree in Met have more training and actually can call themselves a met! They have the mathematics, the physics and all the required met courses to support their title... MSU people... nope, internet classes and associate degree.

That is why I am getting a SECOND bachelors in Meteorology starting this summer from the University of Hawaii. I was under the notion that the AMS is changing its requirements to slowly to phase out MSU graduates from getting a seal of approval... Right choice.

case in point... we have a chief met in the Green Bay that DOES NOT have a AMS seal. Yes, Chief met w/o bachelors in met... Not the ideal candidate for the job. Boring to watch also! (but he is at the top ranked station in Green Bay) He has a bachelors in geography and a masters in met/oceanography. http://www.wbay.com/Global/story.asp?S= ... v=DqT7SoEk

[cswitwer]

Noooo!

Jim Spencer is the ONLY weatherman in Austin who will tell people to be careful when there's a dangerous storm... even if the NWS hasn't put out the warning yet. He was there the day the F5 wiped Jarrell off the map, and he was the first and only weathercaster to say "This storm is deadly, take cover now." Everybody else waited for official notification. There was no time for people to wait-- that F5 came out of blue sky & the people of Jarrell didn't even know it was going to rain, let alone that an F5 was coming at them! Jim rocks!

As for Troy Kimmel, he's the real deal. I took his meteorology class at the University of Texas. I think any bill that comes down the line should apply to people without the 20 years experience and academic training that both Troy and Jim have. They're the two best weather resources in Central Texas and their primary concern is, and always has been, safety. They are also the two "meteorologists" who actually explain what's happening rather than just tell people about it. They save lives, and should be allowed to keep their titles. They're the best. Seriously.

P.S. I'd like to add that I've missed them both every single day since I left Texas 2 years ago. I hope Seattle (my next destination) has some excellent meteorologists!

[Portastorm]

Noooo!

Jim Spencer is the ONLY weatherman in Austin who will tell people to be careful when there's a dangerous storm... even if the NWS hasn't put out the warning yet. He was there the day the F5 wiped Jarrell off the map, and he was the first and only weathercaster to say "This storm is deadly, take cover now." Everybody else waited for official notification. There was no time for people to wait-- that F5 came out of blue sky & the people of Jarrell didn't even know it was going to rain, let alone that an F5 was coming at them! Jim rocks!

As for Troy Kimmel, he's the real deal. I took his meteorology class at the University of Texas. I think any bill that comes down the line should apply to people without the 20 years experience and academic training that both Troy and Jim have. They're the two best weather resources in Central Texas and their primary concern is, and always has been, safety. They are also the two "meteorologists" who actually explain what's happening rather than just tell people about it. They save lives, and should be allowed to keep their titles. They're the best. Seriously.

P.S. I'd like to add that I've missed them both every single day since I left Texas 2 years ago. I hope Seattle (my next destination) has some excellent meteorologists!

I might add that in my 20 years here in Austin, my experience has been the same. Both Kimmel and Spencer are very good at what they do.

[cswitwer]

One more thing-- in Troy's defense, I took his class many many eons ago. So don't think all of my questions about hurricanes this year reflect on his teaching.

[wlfpack81]

I support this bill. Being that I have a degree in Meteorology myself after 4.5yrs in school (NCSU class of 03) I don't think it's fair that someone who doesn't have the same degree as me can call themselves a meteorologist. I don't agree that those who don't meet the requirement should be fired BUUT if you're going to call yourself a meteorologist then you need to have the degree in meteorology / atmospheric sciences.

Those TV wx personalities w/o degrees can just go by weatherman / women and call it a day.

[jeff]

This hit the fan earlier this week, and has started a furry of debate within the NWS and local media outlets.

I totally agree with the fact that those without the 4 yrs of education should probably not be allowed to claim the met title. I worked hard for that degree with many hours spent going through math and physics equations. This is the general feeling from within some NWS offices which feel that their hard work is placed up evening TV sets and little or no credit is ever given for their efforts. There are for sure a lot of people out there not even on TV calling themselves meteorologist, and this is where we start getting into deeper trouble.

With that said, if you have a few met courses and a little math and physics, but 20 yrs of experience, that will easily trump 4 yrs of undergrad work any day. Experience is something that you cannot gain in the classroom and I would like to see internships required in the met program at Texas A&M. Putting a NWS met on TV would be horrible, the TV folks may not have the educational backing, but they are usually good at communicating important information to the public. The argument that important severe weather information may not reach the public is pure BS, as the number one rating getter is severe weather coverage. TV stations are usually very on top of such situations and I have never heard of a case where a TV met did not get warnings out on time (not to mention they can be scrolled directly from the NWS without any human intervention).

That brings me to my last point. I did not know until today that Rebecca Miller was the force behind this bill. She is not only a broadcast met in Dallas, but also teaches the broadcast met course at A&M. She thinks she is the best in her bussiness and that those who do not have degrees are not anywhere close to her level. I have a feeling this is more of a person attempt to stunt her competition is the Dallas market, and she had a friend in the TX congress that can help her do just that.

I strongly support the hard work of those mets with the educational backing, but this bill is misguided and being brought to the attention of law makers for the wrong reasons. Ms. Miller has done nothing more than create a firestorm that in the end will probably benefit nobody and cause could cause ill effects for those that have worked a lifetime and become well respected "meteorologists" within their communities.

[SouthernWx]

This proposal is beyond ridiculous...and the fact Rebecca "Becky" Miller is involved doesn't surprise me a bit.

Becky was at WXIA TV in Atlanta for several years known as "Rebecca Erwin"...before marrying the station's chopper pilot and heading west to DFW. Rebecca may be a degreed met from A&M, but I knew more about forecasting severe weather and tornadoes than Becky Erwin-Miller when she was here, and bet $$$$ I know more than she does today.....regardless of her met degree and my lack of formal education (some things can't be learned in college books or lectures...things such as common sense, experience, and instincts).

It sadly sounds like some Texas legislators have too much time on their hands. IMO this proposed bill is ludicrous.....and the citizens of Texas will be the biggest losers if Truitt and Miller suceed in their twisted efforts....because some of the best severe weather forecasters I've ever witnessed didn't possess meteorology degrees (i.e.- longtime WSB and WXIA TV chief meteorologist Johnny Beckman).

Also, if this bill passes, it could someday mean the end of weather forums such as Storm2k. I may enjoy alerting the public to impending severe weather and try to give folks a heads up....because I feel a responsibility and am trying to save lives; but if doing so means I'm risking a lawsuit or being arrested, I'll leave the internet weather community entirely...and forever (and am sure others such as Barometer Bob and Stormsfury will follow suit). It's simply not worth the risk.

PW

[Persepone]

There needs to be a "grandfathering" provision in the law. Then it does make some sense.

I am not a meterologist. I have 30 years experience as a technical writer and have worked with computers and telecommunications since the late 1060s.

I do NOT have a degree in technical writing. Such a degree did not exist when I went to school. I have graduate degrees in English and some undergraduate engineering courses and significant technical training courses given by various companies, professional associations, etc.

I also have significant teaching experience and designed and taught some of the first technical writing courses given in the state I used to live in.

Recently I've come up against HR departments who claim that having taught the course does not "count" as having taken the course. In order to qualify, I'd have to actually sign up and take my own course!

I can see something like this happening with meterologists...

[Oregonian]

I agree with the proposed legislation. If someone appears on television or radio giving legal advice to the public and doesn't possess a law degree, they are subject to arrest. The same statutes apply to other professionals. I may have taken first aid courses, but that doesn't mean I can appear on the evening news calling myself a doctor; I cannot drive down the expressway and pull over speeding cars while dressed in a law enforcement uniform and calling myself a highway patrolman (thats called impersonating an officer, and is illegal).

Why should pretenders who didn't put forth the effort and earn their education be allowed to legally give the public warnings or forecasts of potentially life threatening storms, while claiming to be something they clearly are not: a professional meteorologist.
I don't see any difference in meteorologists and doctors/ attorneys. All are professionals who are entrusted by the public for potentially life or property saving advice; the same standards should apply.

I also understand perfectly the animosity true meteorologists feel toward those who didn't earn a degree in meteorology, yet falsely claim to be "professionals". I worked my butt off for this degree in elementary education and teaching certificate. It would offend me deeply for someone who never went to college, never earned a degree in education, mathematics, language arts, etc; yet was running around the neighborhood (or internet forums) claiming to be a teacher simply because they "had a lifelong passion for teaching children"; were self taught, knew more than teachers with college degrees.

I won't mention names, but there are far too many unqualified men and women; both on television, and the various weather forums I visit who provide their own forecasts as official and competent; and in many cases, mislead anyone watching/ listening/ reading into believing they are truly knowledgable when the facts are most likely otherwise. In my opinion, these individuals without proper legal authority to do such (appropriate degree) should be held legally responsible if someone dies or is injured as result of their weather forecast.

In my opinion, if an amateur "meteorologist" is willing to post or broadcast a forecast warning of severe storms and doesn't give their (lack of) qualifications clearly beforehand, they should be willing to pay the legal price (lawsuit, arrest, etc.) when their "forecast" is incorrect, and someone is injured, killed, or faces property losses as a result.

[Guest]

I agree with the proposed legislation. If someone appears on television or radio giving legal advice to the public and doesn't possess a law degree, they are subject to arrest. The same statutes apply to other professionals. I may have taken first aid courses, but that doesn't mean I can appear on the evening news calling myself a doctor; I cannot drive down the expressway and pull over speeding cars while dressed in a law enforcement uniform and calling myself a highway patrolman (thats called impersonating an officer, and is illegal).

Why should pretenders who didn't put forth the effort and earn their education be allowed to legally give the public warnings or forecasts of potentially life threatening storms, while claiming to be something they clearly are not: a professional meteorologist.
I don't see any difference in meteorologists and doctors/ attorneys. All are professionals who are entrusted by the public for potentially life or property saving advice; the same standards should apply.

I also understand perfectly the animosity true meteorologists feel toward those who didn't earn a degree in meteorology, yet falsely claim to be "professionals". I worked my butt off for this degree in elementary education and teaching certificate. It would offend me deeply for someone who never went to college, never earned a degree in education, mathematics, language arts, etc; yet was running around the neighborhood (or internet forums) claiming to be a teacher simply because they "had a lifelong passion for teaching children"; were self taught, knew more than teachers with college degrees.

I won't mention names, but there are far too many unqualified men and women; both on television, and the various weather forums I visit who provide their own forecasts as official and competent; and in many cases, mislead anyone watching/ listening/ reading into believing they are truly knowledgable when the facts are most likely otherwise. In my opinion, these individuals without proper legal authority to do such (appropriate degree) should be held legally responsible if someone dies or is injured as result of their weather forecast.

In my opinion, if an amateur "meteorologist" is willing to post or broadcast a forecast warning of severe storms and doesn't give their (lack of) qualifications clearly beforehand, they should be willing to pay the legal price (lawsuit, arrest, etc.) when their "forecast" is incorrect, and someone is injured, killed, or faces property losses as a result.

In short to keep it nice. I TOTALLY disagree with what you said.

[george_r_1961]

I support her bill. There are NUMEROUS 'so-called' mets that have only a assoc degree from Mississippi State... That really doesn't constitute a 4 year degree in Met. People who are gaining a 4 year degree in Met have more training and actually can call themselves a met! They have the mathematics, the physics and all the required met courses to support their title... MSU people... nope, internet classes and associate degree.

That is why I am getting a SECOND bachelors in Meteorology starting this summer from the University of Hawaii. I was under the notion that the AMS is changing its requirements to slowly to phase out MSU graduates from getting a seal of approval... Right choice.

case in point... we have a chief met in the Green Bay that DOES NOT have a AMS seal. Yes, Chief met w/o bachelors in met... Not the ideal candidate for the job. Boring to watch also! (but he is at the top ranked station in Green Bay) He has a bachelors in geography and a masters in met/oceanography. http://www.wbay.com/Global/story.asp?S= ... v=DqT7SoEk

Shannon would the term "Professional Meteorologist" be appropriate for ppl with a minimum of a four year degree in the field? I think many would agree to that. I do have a problem though with announcers calling themselves mets when they have little or no training in the field. As for myself, with no formal training in meteorology, I refer to myself as an "amateur forecaster" or better yet "weather geek" Not as a met...out of deference to individuals such as yourself.

[vbhoutex]

If indeed any of this is necessary, I think there should be different levels assigned and IT SHOULDN'T BE BY SOME STATE LEGISLATURE!!! It should be by the NWS or some other meteorological association agreed upon by those in the field. Make the certifications for the "levels" available to all by testing. Those with the education should definitely have Professional as part of that name. I can see a need for different levels of "certification" or somthing similar. There are indeed some out there who call themselves mets who are not, some who call themselves "hurricane specialists" who are not, etc. However, and it is very evident here at S2K there are some out there without the formal education who have taught themselves who could be certified at high levels. JMHO.

[Stephanie]

Thank goodness the Texas Legislature only meets for 5 months every two years or we would be in some serious trouble.

Tackle bigger problems like my ever increasing property taxes.

I understand her concern. We have a few crackpots that show up here every once in a while!

However, I am in full agreement with the above quote!!!

Yeah, I agree as well. If that's the only problem that needs to be resolved in a state then I want to LIVE THERE!

[Portastorm]

I knew I'd see a variety of opinions on this. I passed the news along to my brother in North Carolina, who is a newspaper reporter, and he forwarded it to some mets in NC who had similar reactions.

For those of you wondering if we have bigger problems in Texas than how to define "meteorologist." .... well, we certainly do. Like property tax relief, school finance funding, children's health insurance ... but this is for another forum on S2K ... so I will stop.

Michael

[Stephanie]

I knew I'd see a variety of opinions on this. I passed the news along to my brother in North Carolina, who is a newspaper reporter, and he forwarded it to some mets in NC who had similar reactions.

For those of you wondering if we have bigger problems in Texas than how to define "meteorologist." .... well, we certainly do. Like property tax relief, school finance funding, children's health insurance ... but this is for another forum on S2K ... so I will stop.

Michael

New Jersey has the same issues. All states have alot of problems and issues that they need to deal with.