Winter ends for the east? No doubt about it!

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donsutherland1
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#21 Postby donsutherland1 » Tue Feb 08, 2005 1:28 pm

Stephanie,

The timing for the 'winter ends for the East' thread could not be worse, especially given the way the models have been trending.

Let's see:

• Parts of New England are likely to be blasted by a significant snowfall in the very near-term.

• The current MJO is approaching Phase 7 and Phase 8 has often seen a trough in the East:

Image

Moreover, this is one of the stronger MJOs one has seen since Autumn and even stronger than the one that came on the heels of the mid-January cold snap that erased enormous warm anomalies from NYC northward from the first half of the month and almost wiped out even larger ones across the Mid-Atlantic.

Through February 7, DCA has seen the temperature average 3° above normal. That means, for the idea of a +10° anomaly to come through, the remainder of the month must see the temperature average more than 12° above normal. Not one model is pointing to such warmth over a sustained period of time. How about other major cities in the East? To verify the +10° prediction, Philadelphia must average +11.9° the rest of February, NYC +11.0°, and Boston +12.7°.

• The southern jet is now bristling with life and the flow is split. Often such a setup can lead to major winter storms in the East. In past seasons such synoptic situations have led to major storms.

Normally, I would not respond so strongly as had been the case in this thread. But given how out-of-proportion some of the figures were e.g., the +10°F idea for February (not to mention the even more extreme March idea!), I felt that I should respond.

Clearly, one has seen stretches of time where temperatures have averaged +10F and even +20F above normal. There is no precedent for such extremes for periods lasting well more than a month and yet that's the picture the +10F February and +20F March attempts to paint.

I don't believe Krysof meant ill. I do believe he should go to the great sites at NWSFO BOX, Upton, Mt. Holly, and Sterling and study the climatology of the region in question. Those sites contain a wealth of data.
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#22 Postby Stephanie » Tue Feb 08, 2005 2:11 pm

You're right don - he should go to those sources for information, but we've seen people that throw out information like this in the past just because they "need to be heard". :wink: It's my "mod" mindset showing here. Time will tell I guess.
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#23 Postby donsutherland1 » Tue Feb 08, 2005 2:34 pm

Stephanie,

No doubt, you're a terrific moderator. S2K is lucky to have such a great team.
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Re: Winter ends for the east? No doubt about it!

#24 Postby george_r_1961 » Tue Feb 08, 2005 2:34 pm

krysof wrote:Temperatures will stay way above freezing for the rest of the month. There are no storm threats at all. The Feb 15 hype shows heavy moisture with temps in the 40's for the northeast. This is such a disappointment. I thought this was supposed to be the snowiest month as accuweather and others predicted. I think I'm going to leave this forum and go to the hurricane hollow forum. Face it winter is over, March will be a very warm month, no snow at all. We'll finish this year with below average snowfall. So far we've had a total of 21 inches which is about 7-8 inches below normal. I am very right about this prediction. Warm months ahead. Monthly temperatures for February in the east will be 10+ above average for the east and March temperatures will be 20+ above average with a scorching month of April and a deadly heat wave starting May through October 2005.


What were you smoking when you made this so called "forecast"? There is nothing to back this up..nothing at all. you are calling for an unprecedented long term event that isnt even remotely supported by any models.
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#25 Postby ETXHAMXYL » Tue Feb 08, 2005 3:25 pm

Texas Stooge---NO SNOW for DFW on FEB14th this year...Forecast calls for upper 60's so Don't think any white stuff will be happening. :cry:
Last Valentines Day was nice and would like to see it repeat this year but just won't be cold enough...Long Range forecast has us in a cool and wet, not cold and frozen.
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#26 Postby Tri-State_1925 » Tue Feb 08, 2005 5:35 pm

If Krysof wants snow so badly, he should consider moving to a different location. Otherwise, enough with the sob stories. I don't even believe his reports of 21 inches.
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#27 Postby Stephanie » Tue Feb 08, 2005 8:34 pm

donsutherland1 wrote:Stephanie,

No doubt, you're a terrific moderator. S2K is lucky to have such a great team.


Thanks don! There are alot of great, hardworking people that mod here. :D
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#28 Postby krysof » Tue Feb 08, 2005 9:50 pm

There maybe a huge snowstorm, but I don't care about new england, what about the northern mid-atlantic and than the forecast show temperatures warming into the 40's to 50 again. No below temperatures are possible, get real.
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#29 Postby storm4u » Wed Feb 09, 2005 1:21 am

I care about new england!! :D
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#30 Postby Andy_L » Wed Feb 09, 2005 7:43 am

krysof wrote:There maybe a huge snowstorm, but I don't care about new england, what about the northern mid-atlantic and than the forecast show temperatures warming into the 40's to 50 again. No below temperatures are possible, get real.


well...i don't post here very often...but i'm in here a lot to read up on the weather and whats happening across the continent....am i the only one that reads Krysof's posts and 'hears' it as a whine in your head? I could be totally off the mark, and if i am then i apologise, but geez cut out the whining wouldya... please :D
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#31 Postby JenyEliza » Wed Feb 09, 2005 8:04 am

Andy_L wrote:
krysof wrote:There maybe a huge snowstorm, but I don't care about new england, what about the northern mid-atlantic and than the forecast show temperatures warming into the 40's to 50 again. No below temperatures are possible, get real.


well...i don't post here very often...but i'm in here a lot to read up on the weather and whats happening across the continent....am i the only one that reads Krysof's posts and 'hears' it as a whine in your head? I could be totally off the mark, and if i am then i apologise, but geez cut out the whining wouldya... please :D


Nope, you're not the only one! ;) :D
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Miss Mary

#32 Postby Miss Mary » Wed Feb 09, 2005 8:13 am

Hey, I'll third that....

I care about New England! I have a niece that lives in Hartford. We exchange emails several times a week in fact. She's always updating me on snowstorms up there.

There are 50 states in this country last time I checked.

And Canadian wx relates to our wx too. So I care about Canada too! Not that Canada was mentioned yet....just thought I'd throw that in here.

Mary
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#33 Postby Andy_L » Wed Feb 09, 2005 8:19 am

Thank you Mary *puffs out proud Canadian chest* :lol:

sooooo....kinda makes ya wonder when the same person has 2 threads on the front page...this thead saying that winter is done in the east, and this one http://www.storm2k.org/phpbb2/viewtopic.php?t=57228 saying that its NOT....hmmmmmmm
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Miss Mary

#34 Postby Miss Mary » Wed Feb 09, 2005 8:47 am

You're welcome Andy! I love Canada. We vacationed there 2 summers in a row, in fact. Because we felt like we missed so much the first trip.

First trip - Cincy to Buffalo, Niagara Falls. Then to Barrie, then Huntsville. Next a big driving day from Huntsville, thru Sudburry (we felt like we were so far North at this point!), to S. St. Marie. We took a day train trip to Agawa Canyon one day. Then back home to Cincy, thru Michigan.

Second trip - Cincy north thru Michigan, into Ontario, to Barrie and Huntsville again. Then to Ottawa and finally to Quebec City. Oh, forgot a day trip to Santa's Village in Bracebridge.

Our favorite towns were Barrie and Huntsville. And of course Ottawa and Quebec. I've never been to Europe before but from movies, pictures I've seen of Europe, I felt like we were there while staying in Quebec. It didn't even feel like we were in North America.

Mary

PS - we stayed at the Delta Hotel in downtown Ottawa. My kids still talk about that hotel! It has a 2 story indoor water slide. They thought that was so neat. They were about 4 and 7 back then.
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#35 Postby Tip » Wed Feb 09, 2005 9:23 am

It seems that many long range forecasters were on a February is gonna to rock train. Well so far this has no materialized. Why? Just check the NAO Index.

http://www.cpc.noaa.gov/products/precip ... index.html

The one time it went negative, we had our two weeks of winter. The GFS ensembles for this index are very mixed and show no strong negative signal for the future.

http://www.cpc.noaa.gov/products/precip ... _ensm.html

Some have theorized that the lack of negative NAO is being caused by a warm water anomaly in the North Atlantic. After watching it for a couple of months, the pattern has not changed significantly.

Finally the latest Euro at 168 hrs shows no negative NAO and a trough over the Caspian Sea (not good). Also in the 10 day means, it is backing off the huge CONUS trough it had on the previous run. This post is just to even out all the pro cold and stormy posts .
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#36 Postby Andy_L » Wed Feb 09, 2005 9:26 am

Nice trips :D those are beautiful places to visit. Huntsville area is just gorgeous. Niagara Falls is a bit to commercialized now for my tastes...but its still something you need to see in your lifetime. From where i'm sitting right now i can SEE the Delta hotel about 2 blocks from my office window. Glad you enjoyed your visits :)

Andy
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#37 Postby Miss Mary » Wed Feb 09, 2005 9:42 am

Wow, you're that close to the Delta Hotel! That's neat....I remember we kept asking my husband how he found that nice hotel and he kept saying - in the AAA book, of course! Our 2 bed (queens I think) room, had a small kitchen off of it. And a table with 4 chairs. We were only there for 3 days/nights but had we needed to stay a week and take meals in, we would have been very comfortable.

I didn't care for Niagara Falls either. It's a long story. We almost had our children kidnapped from there. Such an emotional story for me to share but an important one too. I'll try to find my old topic. I did tell the story here once...it drains me everytime I talk about it. And scares me all over again.

What I remember most from that second trip was we checked out of Quebec City at 9 a.m. To begin the 18 hour drive back to Cincinnati. By this time, we were all homesick and more specifically, my husband missing our king size waterbed (we still have it, will never part with it in fact). The closer we got to Cincy and we didn't encounter any traffic jams, we kept pushing on. Somewhere along the line, after 10 p.m. we decided to just drive straight thru. The thought of getting our luggage back out of the trunk one more time and checking into a hotel/motel was not what we wanted to do. We pulled into driveway around 3 a.m. Dumped our luggage in the family room. And fell into our beds. We all slept until noon. But my husband kept saying later - now are you all so glad we pushed on? See, we're home now and can finally relax! It was a cooped up drive and we've never stood for that again, but he was right - we were glad to be back home.

Mary
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#38 Postby Stephanie » Wed Feb 09, 2005 12:47 pm

Andy_L wrote:
krysof wrote:There maybe a huge snowstorm, but I don't care about new england, what about the northern mid-atlantic and than the forecast show temperatures warming into the 40's to 50 again. No below temperatures are possible, get real.


well...i don't post here very often...but i'm in here a lot to read up on the weather and whats happening across the continent....am i the only one that reads Krysof's posts and 'hears' it as a whine in your head? I could be totally off the mark, and if i am then i apologise, but geez cut out the whining wouldya... please :D


REad my posts above - I'm right there with you! :wink:
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Re: Winter ends for the east? No doubt about it!

#39 Postby Anonymous » Wed Feb 09, 2005 3:56 pm

krysof wrote:Temperatures will stay way above freezing for the rest of the month. There are no storm threats at all. The Feb 15 hype shows heavy moisture with temps in the 40's for the northeast. This is such a disappointment. I thought this was supposed to be the snowiest month as accuweather and others predicted. I think I'm going to leave this forum and go to the hurricane hollow forum. Face it winter is over, March will be a very warm month, no snow at all. We'll finish this year with below average snowfall. So far we've had a total of 21 inches which is about 7-8 inches below normal. I am very right about this prediction. Warm months ahead. Monthly temperatures for February in the east will be 10+ above average for the east and March temperatures will be 20+ above average with a scorching month of April and a deadly heat wave starting May through October 2005.


Instead of posting a purely emotional response to weather you find disappointing, you need to LEARN HOW TO BACK UP YOUR ASSERTIONS. Provide full explanations of the global teleconnections w/pertinent diagrams/charts from the correct sources. Show the relationships between sensible weather and N. Hemispheric configurations for the timeframes you so boldly put forward above.

I'M WAITING, and so is everyone else. WELL?!!
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