a clarification about charley

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#41 Postby recmod » Wed Feb 16, 2005 12:33 am

Derek Ortt wrote:Charley likely was the worst case for Orlando. A near cat 5 coming in only 4.5 hours before hitting Orlando. What would have made it worse is if Charley would have been the size of Ivan as it would not have weakened as quickly; thus, would have been a strong 2 or maybe even a weak 3 in Orlando, which may have leveled the city then with gusts well over 140, approaching 150, instead of merely to 105 m.p.h.

A hit from the east is less likely and the effects are not as severe, as shown by Jeanne where the max gusts in Orlando were closer to 75 m.p.h.


I greatly respect Derek and am well aware of his extensive meteorlogical knowledge. But I disagree that Charley was the worst case scenario for the Orlando area. Using Jeanne's effects as an example of a hit from the east being less severe is like comparing apples to oranges. Charley's central core moved directly over the city, while Jeanne passed far to the south by some 60 miles. If a category 3 or 4 storm took Jeanne's (or Frances's) trajectory, shifted 60 miles to the north, we would be looking at a damage scenario even worse than what Charley produced.

A study completed shortly after Andrew calculated that an Andrew-strength storm (at the time estimated as a 140mph hurricane) moving inland at 15 mph from a Canaveral / Melbourne landfall would bring Orlando winds as high as 130mph.....far more intense than what we experienced in Charley.

What determines that a hit from the east is less likely? It had been 44 years since a Charley-type scenario played out across Central Florida.....we had 2 hits from the east in just 3 weeks last year. It was only luck (for Orlando, that is!) that brought those landfalls just a few miles south of where the storms would have brought much higherwinds intothe metro area.

--Lou
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SouthernWx

#42 Postby SouthernWx » Wed Feb 16, 2005 12:33 am

Derek Ortt wrote:
As for Orlando, the 120-130 m.p.h. gusts for Orlando from the EV does seem to pale when we get a large cat 4 slamming into Punta Gorda, taking the same track as did Charley. We may then get sustained in that region. Had Charley have been Ivan's size, IMO, we'd be talking about the remains of Orlando



I agree Derek, but you also have to consider the historical return period for both events. Charley was a very rare event.....a very severe recurving October-like hurricane path in mid-August over extremely potent sst's into SW Florida. I doubt that happening again in my lifetime...perhaps not in the next 100-200 yrs or more (and it just happened). The odds of another much larger version of Charley are even less....IMO a 500 to 1 longshot.

While Sept 1928 was also fairly unusual, it isn't a 1:200 event for a large intense hurricane to slam into the SE Florida coast and head across the peninsula. Also, 1928 was 77 long years ago. IMO we're much more likely to witness another "San Felipe" than a larger version of Charley occurring during the next 20-30 yrs.

Just my 0.02¢ worth...

PW
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Derek Ortt

#43 Postby Derek Ortt » Wed Feb 16, 2005 7:27 am

Perry,

It may not be as uncommon as we would initially think (for a Charley). Athought I'd agree that a 150 m.p.h. cane is probably once in a lifetime there, maybe a 125-130 would occur a bit more frequently. This would produe similar winds in Orlando, but the duration would be longer, causing more damage

Donna also took a similar track across Florida in 1960.

An east coast landfall may not be as likely only because the major hurricanes that have moved into the area ar the 1928 and Jeanne (not sure if there were any in the 76 years between)
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