Hello to El Nino? SOI falling bigtime,Kelvin Wave spreading

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Hello to El Nino? SOI falling bigtime,Kelvin Wave spreading

#1 Postby cycloneye » Wed Feb 23, 2005 7:10 am



Summary

Trade winds in the central equatorial Pacific have been strongly suppressed during February with the development of three tropical cyclones east of the dateline. Accompanying the reduction in the trades (known as a westerly wind burst - WWB), has been a marked increase in subsurface temperatures near the dateline and a substantial fall in the Southern Oscillation Index (SOI), which was at –17 for the 30 days ending 21st February.

These recent developments have increased the chances of a basin-wide El Niño occurring later this year, as opposed to the more restricted warming which occurred in 2004. The tropical Pacific has now been warmer than average for most of the past three years (including during the 2002/03 El Niño), and was close to the El Niño threshold during spring and early summer. As autumn is the critical time for El Niño development, any further changes over the coming months will be monitored closely.
Historical data and the latest information indicate that:

The sub-surface warmth in the western Pacific will gradually move to the east, reaching South America in about two to three months (April/May). This movement is called a "Kelvin wave".
Surface temperatures in the eastern to central Pacific are likely to rise in response to the arrival of the Kelvin wave.
Most computer models haven't included the current WWB and its associated strong subsurface warming. The Bureau of Meteorology's POAMA model has included these, and it has the chance of warming above El Niño thresholds at 40 to 50%, which is roughly double the long-term average for this time of year.
The Pacific Ocean is likely to remain warmer than average for the foreseeable future.
March to June is known as the "predictability" barrier and model skill is at its lowest predicting across this span of months.

There remains uncertainty about:

The intensity and duration of the warming in the eastern to central Pacific in response to the Kelvin wave.
Whether any follow-up westerly wind bursts will occur during autumn - if an El Niño event is to occur this year there will almost certainly need to be more WWBs in the next few months, as it is unlikely the current one will be sufficient in itself to trigger an event.


The above is an update from the Australian folks who analize ENSO.

Kelvin wave is moving eastward from the WPAC which moves warmer waters from the dateline area of el nino 4 to el nino 3 and to el nino 1-2 off South America.But let's see if that wave will be sufficient to cause el nino to revive and be a trend towards warm ENSO which can have big implications when hurricane season arrives.

What do the pro mets and the amateour forecasters think about this data from them?

Image
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#2 Postby AussieMark » Wed Feb 23, 2005 7:49 am

I don't really want a El Nino

we are finally getting some decent falls here.

the last thing we need is another drought
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#3 Postby AussieMark » Wed Feb 23, 2005 7:57 am

SYdney dams are still around 42.5%.
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#4 Postby Derek Ortt » Wed Feb 23, 2005 8:12 am

we need more data.

However, these latest trends do tend to indicate more of a ninoish pattern, which should basically eliminate any chance of an active hurricane season. We may be looking more at a 2002 type season if this el nino does come to fruition with only 3 or 4 hurricanes
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#5 Postby x-y-no » Wed Feb 23, 2005 8:22 am

Well, it certainly would completely change my early thinking on the season.

I won't believe it till I see it, though - I guess we should have a solid idea by April sometime.
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The SOI etc.

#6 Postby hurricanetrack » Wed Feb 23, 2005 9:22 am

The SOI is way down there- that's for sure. However, until this map shows warm water off of South America, I am not worried too much about an El Nino capable of putting the lid on the '05 season:

https://www.fnmoc.navy.mil/products/NCO ... nomaly.gif

While this is just a snapshot of the water temp anomalies, it does clearly show a nice tongue of cold water well established off of South America. And the warmer water in the central and western Pacific is not nearly as prominent as it was back in the earlier portion of the winter.
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#7 Postby Derek Ortt » Wed Feb 23, 2005 10:15 am

and that water off of S America does squat for the Atlantic basin. Nothing at all.

Due to the large size of the walker circulation, even a shift to the CPAC for the ascending branch, will produce very strong shear across the vast majority of the Atlantic basin, and if it shifts into the EPAC (around 140W, get ready for a 3-5 storm season)
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#8 Postby MWatkins » Wed Feb 23, 2005 10:39 am

Although WWB's are thought to induce Nino related events...I believe that coupling with warm (high) OHC (oceanic heat content) index values is necessary to trigger the development of a Nino.

Although WPAC SST and OHC values are running a bit above normal...there is not much of an argument that the OHC index is high enough to sustain the feedback needed to drive a full-fleged nino event later this year...

Folks may or may not remember that we saw a similar event last year toward the end of March...a WWB broke loose and dragged some warm water with it...but then the SOI reversed and busted back the warm sst anoms for the bulk of the 2004 season.

The extension of the existing cold pool in the eastern Pacific (and it is slipping westward...like it did last year) may prevent a full flegged event. An interesting research paper from Harvard (you will need a PDF reader) shows that the WWB's tend to propogate along the 29C isotherm....which according to the link above only extends to the dateline.

http://people.deas.harvard.edu/~eisenma ... wb_mod.pdf

There is a lot more than that in this research paper...but there are a couple of things about this:

1. Lets see how this plays out...unless another WWB busts loose in April...a WWB all by itself if not necessarily an indicator that a warm event is getting going (the paper above notes that 2 to 8 of these occur every year).

2. The link between WWB's and ENSO is not absolute.

MW
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#9 Postby MWatkins » Wed Feb 23, 2005 10:44 am

Derek Ortt wrote:and that water off of S America does squat for the Atlantic basin. Nothing at all.

Due to the large size of the walker circulation, even a shift to the CPAC for the ascending branch, will produce very strong shear across the vast majority of the Atlantic basin, and if it shifts into the EPAC (around 140W, get ready for a 3-5 storm season)


If the Harvard guys are right (and if my interpretation is correct)...then this wave ain't makin' it past the date line...and the cold water extending toward the dateline from South America will have a lot to do with due to SST coupling. I'd lay 10 to 1 odds against warm anoms spreading to 140W and choking the 2005 season for this reason alone.

Look what happened to last March's WWB once it hit the cooler water...it got beat back like the St Louis Cardinals did in the in 2004 World Series.

MW
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#10 Postby Derek Ortt » Wed Feb 23, 2005 10:52 am

even an extention to the dateline though would represent a shift in the walker circulation. Also, a warm enso can warm the entire tropicals, which creates larger shear due to thermal wind considerations as well.

Last Apr, the SOI tanked like it is doing now, but it did recover to only be slightly warm phase. We need to closely monitor this over the next few months to see if the current downward motion is a trend, or just another blip on the radar
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#11 Postby cycloneye » Wed Feb 23, 2005 2:33 pm

In conclusion from what Mike and Derek are saying it is not conclusive that a warm episode of ENSO meaning el nino will unfold this summer during hurricane season as more data and trends have to be established to then have a more concrete idea on what will happen with ENSO.

By the way I forgot to post the link from the Australian Bureau of Meterology.
:darrow: :darrow: :darrow: :darrow:
http://www.bom.gov.au/climate/enso/index.shtml
Last edited by cycloneye on Wed Feb 23, 2005 2:43 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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#12 Postby Guest » Wed Feb 23, 2005 2:42 pm

2002 was active then again most of the storms were sheared to death. Also another factor in 2001 and 2002 cane seasons was drier air maybe cause by polution clouds in Asia causing less moisture. In my book I will talk about this.
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#13 Postby cycloneye » Wed Feb 23, 2005 3:27 pm

hurricaneauthor wrote:2002 was active then again most of the storms were sheared to death. Also another factor in 2001 and 2002 cane seasons was drier air maybe cause by polution clouds in Asia causing less moisture. In my book I will talk about this.


Thanks Great One for telling us about your book. :)
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#14 Postby AussieMark » Wed Feb 23, 2005 4:44 pm

hurricaneauthor wrote:2002 was active then again most of the storms were sheared to death. Also another factor in 2001 and 2002 cane seasons was drier air maybe cause by polution clouds in Asia causing less moisture. In my book I will talk about this.


2001 wasn't exactly a weak season its just most went out to sea

15 tropical storms

9 Hurricanes

4 Major Hurricanes

just the way u worded it makes it sound like 2001 was a inactive season
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#15 Postby cycloneye » Wed Feb 23, 2005 5:01 pm

Image

It definitly looks more warm at the dateline area of el nino 4 and the blue cool pool at el nino 1-2 is not big enough.Let's see what evolves in the next few weeks as we get closer to hurricane season and see if el nino will be around or not.
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#16 Postby AussieMark » Wed Feb 23, 2005 5:07 pm

wasn't last year suposed to be a El Nino year or something

I have a bad memory on some things

so sorry if I am wrong
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#17 Postby cycloneye » Wed Feb 23, 2005 5:10 pm

tropicalweatherwatcher wrote:wasn't last year suposed to be a El Nino year or something

I have a bad memory on some things

so sorry if I am wrong


No 2004 was with Neutral ENSO for most of that year however by the last 3 months weak el nino developed.
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#18 Postby MGC » Wed Feb 23, 2005 5:11 pm

I like to use the data on the CPC website. SST in the Nino 3.4 regions has been cooling the past few weeks. SST in the Nino 1.2 region have warmed some but are still slightly below normal. Do I think an El Nino is in the cards this hurricane season? It don't look like it.....MGC
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#19 Postby AussieMark » Wed Feb 23, 2005 5:13 pm

cycloneye wrote:
tropicalweatherwatcher wrote:wasn't last year suposed to be a El Nino year or something

I have a bad memory on some things

so sorry if I am wrong


No 2004 was with Neutral ENSO for most of that year however by the last 3 months weak el nino developed.


Thanks

my memory is very unreliable thats why i asked the question

:)
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#20 Postby AussieMark » Wed Feb 23, 2005 5:19 pm

I am Australian but I wouldn't 100% agree with it either

:lol:
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