Feds' weather information could go dark

[TampaFl]

[SkeetoBite]

That article says that the bill is simply to restore the policy that went into effect in 1991 (which NOAA repealed in Dec. 2004). It says the NWS will continue providing warnings and forecasts just as it has been doing since 1991. If that's the case, then why all the fuss?

This is the top of a very slippery slope. Although I doubt this bill has a chance of making it out of committee, this is just one step toward further diminishing services and data produced by the NWS. A private provider can then legitimately make the claim that they are an exclusive provider of product "x". This would obviously lead to greater value for advertisers and investors.

The "big deal" as far as I am concerned is the motivation behind the bill in the first place. While the Senator's written comments found in the previous link makes the issue sound mundane, his public comments and the public comments of AccuWeather tell a different story.

I oppose any legislation, especially at the Federal level that is so lopsided as to serve the interests of a narrow group of people or a handful of commercial entities. The intent of this legislation is to benefit commercial entities, not to improve the NWS. We must expect our legislature to represent the interests of ALL Americans, not just a few. Frankly, passing legislation that improves the bottom line for AccuWeather does nothing for "we the people".

Now for the funniest part of this issue. Anyone can gain access to this data without cost by using the Freedom of Information Act.

What's at stake for Storm2K.org? The brand spanking new weather interface is powered by a database that is populated with data provided by the NWS. Should this bill be successful, this "free" data would no longer be available because that's just not fair to commercial entities that want to sell this data to you.

[SkeetoBite]

An afterthought to bring the point home...

I will start a commercial entity to provide lists of where registered sex offenders live. Then I will insist on "equal protection under the law" to receive the same treatment as the commercial weather services and demand that the publicly available information no longer be provided as a free service by government entities. Their providing the data for free is cutting into my ability to make a buck. Who cares about Megan's Law when I am trying to sell you data you already own?

Didn't the NWS exist long before AccuWeather. Wasn't this data already available long before AccuWeather existed?

Therein lies the bottom line.

[x-y-no]

That article says that the bill is simply to restore the policy that went into effect in 1991 (which NOAA repealed in Dec. 2004). It says the NWS will continue providing warnings and forecasts just as it has been doing since 1991. If that's the case, then why all the fuss?

The fuss is section (b) of the proposed bill, which says in essence that the weather service may not compete with private entities in providing any data those entities are willing to provide, with the narrow exception of aviation data and emergency warnings.

Now go get yourself a guest membership on the Accuweather Pro site (if they still offer such a thing) and see just how much territory that covers. Any and all model data, sattelite images, raw data from weather stations on and on. All that is available on their pro site, which means they are "willing" to provide it and therefore, according to this bill, the government must not.

Personally, I think that's worth a fuss.

[x-y-no]

An afterthought to bring the point home...

I will start a commercial entity to provide lists of where registered sex offenders live. Then I will insist on "equal protection under the law" to receive the same treatment as the commercial weather services and demand that the publicly available information no longer be provided as a free service by government entities. Their providing the data for free is cutting into my ability to make a buck. Who cares about Megan's Law when I am trying to sell you data you already own?

Didn't the NWS exist long before AccuWeather. Wasn't this data already available long before AccuWeather existed?

Therein lies the bottom line.

Good point, skeetobite.

I think I'll do the same with any and all statements from the White House. I demand that Scott McClellan and President Bush stop competing with my private enterprise!

[Derek Ortt]

what I really hate about that is is that Cangialosi and I could make nwhhc private, which if I am reading the law correctly, would prevent nhc from issuing routine forecast products.


I do have principles and do not want to ever make money in this manner. If I want respect, I know I must earn it. Maybe Accusux should do the same. If they want to be #1, how about spending the money to pay for the best mets, instea dof letting them run off the greener pastures. How about making the forecasts so accurate that nobody would question your record. There is a way to go about building a business, and getting a free handout from the gov't is not the way

[donsutherland1]

Wxman57,

If one examines the bill's conforming amendments, the bill does far more than seek to restore the former "non-competition and non-duplication policy." In fact, the restoration of such a policy is never mentioned anywhere in the actual legislation. Rather, the bill seeks to dramatically cut back the National Weather Service's broad mandate of " the issue of storm warnings, the display of weather and flood signals for the benefit of agriculture, commerce, and navigation..." to the much narrower "issuance of severe weather warnings and forecasts designed for the protection of life and property of the general public."

Also expressly excluded is the ability of the National Weather Service to further develop its products/services for the interest of agriculture. Indeed, the second conforming amendment strikes the existing language that states such a authority ("and it shall be the duty of the Secretary of Commerce to prepare future estimates for the National Weather Service which shall be specially developed and extended in the interests of agriculture" would be removed).

Here's the actual text of the Santorum Legislation:

National Weather Service Duties Act of 2005 (Introduced in Senate)

S 786 IS


109th CONGRESS

1st Session

S. 786
To clarify the duties and responsibilities of the National Weather Service , and for other purposes.


IN THE SENATE OF THE UNITED STATES

April 14, 2005
Mr. SANTORUM introduced the following bill; which was read twice and referred to the Committee on Commerce, Science, and Transportation



--------------------------------------------------------------------------------


A BILL
To clarify the duties and responsibilities of the National Weather Service , and for other purposes.


Be it enacted by the Senate and House of Representatives of the United States of America in Congress assembled,

SECTION 1. SHORT TITLE.

This Act may be cited as the `National Weather Service Duties Act of 2005'.

SEC. 2. DUTIES AND RESPONSIBILITIES OF NATIONAL WEATHER SERVICE .

(a) IN GENERAL- (1) To protect life and property, the Secretary of Commerce shall, through the National Weather Service , be responsible for the following:

(A) The preparation and issuance of severe weather warnings and forecasts designed for the protection of life and property of the general public.

(B) The preparation and issuance of hydrometeorological guidance and core forecast information.

(C) The collection and exchange of meteorological, hydrological, climatic, and oceanographic data and information.

(D) The provision of reports, forecasts, warnings, and other advice to the Secretary of Transportation and other persons pursuant to section 44720 of title 49, United States Code.

(E) Such other duties and responsibilities as the Secretary shall specify.

(2) The National Weather Service shall serve as the sole official source of flood warnings and severe weather warnings.

(b) COMPETITION WITH PRIVATE SECTOR- The National Weather Service shall not provide, or assist other entities in providing, a service or product (other than a service or product described in subsection (a)(1)(A)) that is or could be provided by the private sector unless--

(1) the Secretary determines that the private sector is unwilling or unable to provide such service or product; or

(2) the United States Government is obligated to provide such service or product under international aviation agreements to provide meteorological services and exchange meteorological information.

(c) ISSUANCE OF DATA, FORECASTS, AND WARNINGS- All data, information, guidance, forecasts, and warnings received, collected, created, or prepared by the National Weather Service shall, to the maximum extent practicable, be issued in real time, and without delay, in a manner that ensures that all members of the public have the opportunity for simultaneous and equal access to such data, information, guidance, forecasts, and warnings.

(d) PROHIBITION ON CERTAIN DISCLOSURES- An officer, employee, or agent of the National Weather Service , or of any other department or agency of the United States, who comes by reason of that status into possession of any weather data, information, guidance, forecast, or warning that might influence or affect the market value of any product, service , commodity, tradable, or business may not--

(1) willfully impart, whether directly or indirectly, such weather data, information, guidance, forecast, or warning, or any part thereof, before the issuance of such weather data, information, guidance, forecast, or warning to the public under subsection (c); or

(2) after the issuance of such weather data, information, guidance, forecast, or warning to the public under subsection (c), willfully impart comments or qualifications on such weather data, information, guidance, forecast, or warning, or any part thereof, to the public, except pursuant to an issuance that complies with that subsection.

(e) REGULATIONS- Not later than 90 days after the date of the enactment of this Act, the Secretary shall prescribe regulations to implement the provisions of this section.

(f) EFFECTIVE DATE- The provisions of this section (other than subsection (e)) shall take effect 90 days after the date of the enactment of this Act.

(g) CONFORMING AMENDMENTS- The Act of October 1, 1890 (26 Stat. 653) is amended as follows:

(1) Section 3 (15 U.S.C. 313) is repealed.

(2) Section 9 (15 U.S.C. 317) is amended by striking `, and it shall be' and all that follows and inserting a period.

SEC. 3. REPORT ON MODIFICATION OF NATIONAL WEATHER SERVICE ACTIVITIES.

(a) REPORT REQUIRED- Not later than 90 days after the date of the enactment of this Act, the Secretary of Commerce shall submit to the appropriate committees of Congress a report that sets forth--

(1) a detailed statement of the activities of the National Weather Service that are inconsistent with the provisions of section 2;

(2) a schedule for the modification of the activities referred to in paragraph (1) in order to conform such activities to the provisions of section 2; and

(3) the regulations prescribed under section 2(e).

(b) APPROPRIATE COMMITTEES OF CONGRESS DEFINED- In this section, the term `appropriate committees of Congress' means--

(1) the Committee on Commerce, Science, and Transportation of the Senate; and

(2) the Committee on Science of the House of Representatives.

[MWatkins]

what I really hate about that is is that Cangialosi and I could make nwhhc private, which if I am reading the law correctly, would prevent nhc from issuing routine forecast products.

Given JB's tropical discussions and all of the model maps that they LIFT FROM THE NWS I think Accuweather already has taken this stuff "private" and would already be the trigger.

Even under the proposed legislation, I'm sure the NHC would still exist under the following provision:

(A) The preparation and issuance of severe weather warnings and forecasts designed for the protection of life and property of the general public.

Considering the TAFB composes forecasts for ships at sea and the fact that storms can develop rapidly, I cant think of a product that TPC of TAFB which would not qualify under this provision.

MW

[x-y-no]

what I really hate about that is is that Cangialosi and I could make nwhhc private, which if I am reading the law correctly, would prevent nhc from issuing routine forecast products.

Given JB's tropical discussions and all of the model maps that they LIFT FROM THE NWS I think Accuweather already has taken this stuff "private" and would already be the trigger.

Even under the proposed legislation, I'm sure the NHC would still exist under the following provision:

(A) The preparation and issuance of severe weather warnings and forecasts designed for the protection of life and property of the general public.

Considering the TAFB composes forecasts for ships at sea and the fact that storms can develop rapidly, I cant think of a product that TPC of TAFB which would not qualify under this provision.

MW

Yes, I don't think this would prevent the NHC from issuing forecasts. But the way I read part (b) of this bill, all that free access to sattelite imagery, model output, radar imagery, bouy data, etc. would be forbidden because it's in direct competition with what Accuweather offers on their pro site.

[kevin]

Accuweather is the worst thing in the world.

[x-y-no]

Accuweather is the worst thing in the world.

Well ... that may be going kind of overboard ...

[kevin]

They are the worst thing in the weather world. In the greater world they are better than the janjanaweed and worst than sour milk.

[vacanechaser]

Accuweather is the worst thing in the world.

Well ... that may be going kind of overboard ...

Good Lord x-y-no, this is something else I agree with you on... ... That is a bit much... I guess like any other company out there, Accuweather is trying to rid itself of the compition... But this is certainly a bad deal and have already written Sen. George Allen who is on the commitiee who is from my state of Va. I sent it last night... Still no reply... lol.. Am I asking to much?? We need to do what we can to stop this bill..

Jesse V. Bass III
http://www.vastormphoto.com
Hurricane Intercept Research Team

[depotoo]

you need to call their offices to make the most impact. when the phones are ringing off the wall that is when they take notice.

[x-y-no]

Accuweather is the worst thing in the world.

Well ... that may be going kind of overboard ...

Good Lord x-y-no, this is something else I agree with you on... ... That is a bit much... I guess like any other company out there, Accuweather is trying to rid itself of the compition... But this is certainly a bad deal and have already written Sen. George Allen who is on the commitiee who is from my state of Va. I sent it last night... Still no reply... lol.. Am I asking to much?? We need to do what we can to stop this bill..

Jesse V. Bass III
http://www.vastormphoto.com
Hurricane Intercept Research Team

LOL! We'd better watch out or people are going to start mistaking us for a couple of like-minded moderates!


Actually, I was a beta-tester for the Accuweather Pro site, and once they went live, I was a subscriber for the first eight or nine months. I learned a lot there, including from JB's ramblings. After a while, I kind of felt I'd outgrown the place, though.

Anyway, as a result of all that, I kind of have a warm spot in my heart for them.

Jan

[kevin]

Accuweather is a snore, accuweather is a bore, accuweather is a....

[HurricaneBill]

I wonder what Accuweather subscribers think of this. I'm sure some of them might feel this bill is wrong.

[wxman57]

I don't know, the wording of the bill looks vague enough to interpret however you want:

"The preparation and issuance of severe weather warnings and forecasts designed for the protection of life and property of the general public".

The NWS can just say that their zone forecasts are designed for the protection of life and property and continue as before. Same with everything else. Wasn't that what was done after the 1991 bill?

Anyway, I really don't see it helping US out as a private weather provider. We offer personalized forecasts, customized for each individual customer. For example, hourly forecasts of temperature, dew point, wind direction and speed out to 10 or more days - all reviewed by a meteorologist before sending (not computer generated from the GFS data). We call customers personally to discuss severe weather and/or hurricane threats and their impact on the customer. Customers can call us 24/7 to speak with a meteorologist. There really is no direct competition with the NWS as they serve the general public. AccuWeather may view things differently, however.

[x-y-no]

I don't know, the wording of the bill looks vague enough to interpret however you want:

"The preparation and issuance of severe weather warnings and forecasts designed for the protection of life and property of the general public".

The NWS can just say that their zone forecasts are designed for the protection of life and property and continue as before. Same with everything else. Wasn't that what was done after the 1991 bill?

The bill is artfully worded in a somewhat vague way, but if you take a look at what the conforming amendments actually do, it looks more serious.

(h) CONFORMING AMENDMENTS- The Act of October 1, 1890 (26 Stat. 653) is amended as follows:

(1) Section 3 (15 U.S.C. 313) is repealed.

(2) Section 9 (15 U.S.C. 317) is amended by striking `, and it shall be' and all that follows and inserting a period.

15 US 313, which reads:

The Secretary of Commerce shall have charge of the forecasting of weather, the issue of storm warnings, the display of weather and flood signals for the benefit of agriculture, commerce, and navigation, the gauging and reporting of rivers, the maintenance and operation of seacoast telegraph lines and the collection and transmission of marine intelligence for the benefit of commerce and navigation, the reporting of temperature and rain-fall conditions for the cotton interests, the display of frost and cold-wave signals, the distribution of meteorological information in the interests of agriculture and commerce, and the taking of such meteorological observations as may be necessary to establish and record the climatic conditions of the United States, or as are essential for the proper execution of the foregoing duties.

is repealed.

15 USC 319 is amended to remove "and it shall be the duty of the Secretary of Commerce to prepare future estimates for the National Weather Service which shall be specially developed and extended in the interests of agriculture." The remaining text of the section reads merely:

The appropriations for the support of the National Weather Service shall be made with those of the other bureaus of the Department of Commerce.

That's a significant reduction in what the weather service is authorized to do.

Couple this with this restriction against competition:

(b) COMPETITION WITH PRIVATE SECTOR- The Secretary of Commerce shall not provide, or assist other entities in providing, a product or service (other than a product or service described in subsection (a)(1)) that is or could be provided by the private sector unless--

(1) the Secretary determines that the private sector is unwilling or unable to provide such product or service; or

(2) the United States Government is obligated to provide such product or service under international aviation agreements to provide meteorological services and exchange meteorological information.

Where a "product" is defined as:

(f) PRODUCT OR SERVICE DEFINED- In this section, the term `product or service' means a product, service, device, or system that provides, senses, or communicates meteorological, hydrological, climatic, solar, or oceanographic data, forecasts, or other similar information.

and the fact that the bill anticipates that the weather service will have to significantly reduce current services:

(a) REPORT- Not later than 90 days after the date of the enactment of this Act, the Secretary of Commerce shall submit to the appropriate committees of Congress a report that sets forth--

(1) a detailed statement of the activities, if any, of the National Oceanic and Atmospheric Administration and the National Weather Service that are inconsistent with the provisions of section 2;

(2) a schedule for the modification of the activities referred to in paragraph (1) in order to conform such activities to the provisions of section 2; and

(3) the regulations prescribed under section 2(e).

and you'll perhaps forgive me if I am not so sangine about the benign nature of this legislation.

Jan

[BayouVenteux]

Accuweather's statement on the issue...

http://wwwa.accuweather.com/promotion.a ... infoaccess