Dry May=Lots Of Hype

This is the general tropical discussion area. Anyone can take their shot at predicting a storms path.

Moderator: S2k Moderators

Forum rules

The posts in this forum are NOT official forecasts and should not be used as such. They are just the opinion of the poster and may or may not be backed by sound meteorological data. They are NOT endorsed by any professional institution or STORM2K. For official information, please refer to products from the National Hurricane Center and National Weather Service.

Help Support Storm2K
Message
Author
cyclonaut

Dry May=Lots Of Hype

#1 Postby cyclonaut » Wed May 11, 2005 2:29 pm

Like the Bermuda High this dry May stuff is getting beaten like a rented mule.Of course its ok to research & experiment but please DO NOT base what might or might not happen later this season around what happens in May in South Fla.

In May of 1948 6.65 inches of rain was measured @ MIA (MIami International Airport) & later that year 2 CAT 3s hit South Fla & the Keys.Both hurricanes originated in the Carribean & no Bermuda High was needed as they came up from the South & SW.

In May of 1949 5.26 inches of rain was measured @ MIA & later that year a CAT 4 struck the Palm Beach area from the east.Apparently a ridge helped the hurricane move in a general W/NW direction until landfall in Palm Beach.Can you believe it!!! A Bermuda High was in place after a relatively wet May. :eek:

In May of 1950 3.27 inches of rain was measured @ MIA,certainly thats not that much but its far from a record dry May.Later that year Hurricane Easy hits Tampa & King hits Miami & again the Bermuda High has nothing to do with both storms.Again this shows that it can rain in May & that you don't need a Bermuda High to get a hurricane in Fla.

In May of 1960 3.47 inches of rain was measured @ MIA..again not that much thats about where we are @ now.Later that year Hurricane Donna came a calling & we all know what a legendary hurricane she was.

In May of 1964 a appreciable 4.64 inches of rain measured @ MIA & 2 hurricanes hit South Fla,Cleo & Isbell.Cleo hitched a ride on the Bermuda High for some of his journey & Isbell came up from the Caribbean.This is a great year that the Dry May & Bermuda High Fan Club can use to learn from.Hurricane Dora hit North Fla that year as well.3 hurricanes hitting Florida after a wet May in Miami who would have thunk it! :lol:

1.It was a fairly wet May & there was a Bermuda High present to move a storm in the general direction of South Fla.

2.The Bermuda High was about to cause Cleo to move South Fla & a trough came in a lifted Cleo north into South Fla which proves that timing between highs & troughs is the key.

3.Hurricane Isbell hit SW Fla once again proving that you don't need a Bermuda High to get hit by a hurricane in Florida.

In May of 1966 5.53 inches of rain was measured @ MIA & later that year Alma gives South Fla quite a scare as she passes just west of the Keys & SW Fla as a CAT 3 before hitting the panhandle.Alma dumped 7.70 inches of rain @ MIA so we did feel some good effects from her & later that season Inez buffeted the Keys.

So right there you have proof of year after year after year where "Dry Mays" & "Bermuda Highs" don't really mean much as there is little correlation between one or the other.We saw hurricanes hitting South Fla or Florida in general after normal to above normal rainfall in May & with or without Bermuda Highs.

The speculation is that there is more ridging off the EC when there is a dry May in Florida.Well I saw ridging & plenty of storms hitting South Fla even after May had appreciable rainfall.

& once again the Bermuda High is not the only method of transport for hurricanes as we saw plenty of them come up from the Caribbean.

Lets let the pieces fall into place this season & lets see what happens.I think more people are being mis-informed than informed with all this Dry May & Bermuda High speculation.

More #'s to think about..1962 was a very dry May with only 0.92 inches of rain @ MIA & there were only 5 NS & none came close to South Fla.

1967 was another fairly dry May & once again no storms touched South Fla or Florida as a whole for that matter.

There were many dry Mays in the 70s & 80s that produced NO hurricanes for South Fla..

So lets give the Bermuda High & Dry May theory a rest for a while..As this post shows there really is little to go on & to base your entire perception on a what appears to be a urban legend is not very smart & is only mis-informing the average Joe who might be new to this forum.
Last edited by cyclonaut on Wed May 11, 2005 4:09 pm, edited 1 time in total.
0 likes   

User avatar
boca
Category 5
Category 5
Posts: 6372
Age: 60
Joined: Mon Dec 15, 2003 8:49 am
Location: Boca Raton,FL

#2 Postby boca » Wed May 11, 2005 2:38 pm

Agreed and well put, but when people say that the Bermuda high will have minimal effect on hurricane season 4 months from now,that's hogwash.
0 likes   

User avatar
Huckster
Category 1
Category 1
Posts: 394
Age: 43
Joined: Fri Aug 13, 2004 2:33 am
Location: Baton Rouge, LA
Contact:

#3 Postby Huckster » Wed May 11, 2005 2:48 pm

Thanks for that well thought-out post. It was much needed. Some of the speculations are getting way out there. It's silliness if you ask me. I know it's just human nature to want to know the future, and forecasting has its rightful place and is very necessary, but this stuff is not forecasting. It's more like the psychic hotline. The weather pattern at a given time for a certain storm will determine the course of events, and no one can possibly "know" what things will be like come August. I don't think the last hurricane season has worn off (I know it hasn't for me), so it's understandable that people are still hyped up, but let's just take things one at a time. When things start heating up, few people will even think about what happened in May.
0 likes   

cyclonaut

#4 Postby cyclonaut » Wed May 11, 2005 3:03 pm

You know if there was undeniable proof that a dry May led directly to hurricanes in Florida I would be the 1st one on that bandwagon.But once you look @ all the data you will see that hurricanes can occur down here regardless of a Bermuda High or dry May.

Like you said huckster & I have said this myself that where a hurricane goes depends on what weather patterns are in place @ the time the hurricane is there,not what is happening on May 12.Having said that of course the Bermuda High is important as to where a hurricane will go & if there is a hurricane east of me & the BH is in place that could & usually means trouble for Florida.To say that it will have minimal effect on the season like I read on another thread is crazy.Every year canes & BHs interact some how.
0 likes   

StormChasr

#5 Postby StormChasr » Wed May 11, 2005 3:30 pm

You know if there was undeniable proof that a dry May led directly to hurricanes in Florida I would be the 1st one on that bandwagon.But once you look @ all the data you will see that hurricanes can occur down here regardless of a Bermuda High or dry May.

Like you said huckster & I have said this myself that where a hurricane goes depends on what weather patterns are in place @ the time the hurricane is there,not what is happening on May 12.Having said that of course the Bermuda High is important as to where a hurricane will go & if there is a hurricane east of me & the BH is in place that could & usually means trouble for Florida.To say that it will have minimal effect on the season like I read on another thread is crazy.Every year canes & BHs interact some how.


WELL PUT!!!
:notworthy:
0 likes   

caneman

Re: Dry May=Lots Of Hype

#6 Postby caneman » Wed May 11, 2005 4:26 pm

cyclonaut wrote:Like the Bermuda High this dry May stuff is getting beaten like a rented mule.Of course its ok to research & experiment but please DO NOT base what might or might not happen later this season around what happens in May in South Fla.

In May of 1948 6.65 inches of rain was measured @ MIA (MIami International Airport) & later that year 2 CAT 3s hit South Fla & the Keys.Both hurricanes originated in the Carribean & no Bermuda High was needed as they came up from the South & SW.

In May of 1949 5.26 inches of rain was measured @ MIA & later that year a CAT 4 struck the Palm Beach area from the east.Apparently a ridge helped the hurricane move in a general W/NW direction until landfall in Palm Beach.Can you believe it!!! A Bermuda High was in place after a relatively wet May. :eek:

In May of 1950 3.27 inches of rain was measured @ MIA,certainly thats not that much but its far from a record dry May.Later that year Hurricane Easy hits Tampa & King hits Miami & again the Bermuda High has nothing to do with both storms.Again this shows that it can rain in May & that you don't need a Bermuda High to get a hurricane in Fla.

In May of 1960 3.47 inches of rain was measured @ MIA..again not that much thats about where we are @ now.Later that year Hurricane Donna came a calling & we all know what a legendary hurricane she was.

In May of 1964 a appreciable 4.64 inches of rain measured @ MIA & 2 hurricanes hit South Fla,Cleo & Isbell.Cleo hitched a ride on the Bermuda High for some of his journey & Isbell came up from the Caribbean.This is a great year that the Dry May & Bermuda High Fan Club can use to learn from.Hurricane Dora hit North Fla that year as well.3 hurricanes hitting Florida after a wet May in Miami who would have thunk it! :lol:

1.It was a fairly wet May & there was a Bermuda High present to move a storm in the general direction of South Fla.

2.The Bermuda High was about to cause Cleo to move South Fla & a trough came in a lifted Cleo north into South Fla which proves that timing between highs & troughs is the key.

3.Hurricane Isbell hit SW Fla once again proving that you don't need a Bermuda High to get hit by a hurricane in Florida.

In May of 1966 5.53 inches of rain was measured @ MIA & later that year Alma gives South Fla quite a scare as she passes just west of the Keys & SW Fla as a CAT 3 before hitting the panhandle.Alma dumped 7.70 inches of rain @ MIA so we did feel some good effects from her & later that season Inez buffeted the Keys.

So right there you have proof of year after year after year where "Dry Mays" & "Bermuda Highs" don't really mean much as there is little correlation between one or the other.We saw hurricanes hitting South Fla or Florida in general after normal to above normal rainfall in May & with or without Bermuda Highs.

The speculation is that there is more ridging off the EC when there is a dry May in Florida.Well I saw ridging & plenty of storms hitting South Fla even after May had appreciable rainfall.

& once again the Bermuda High is not the only method of transport for hurricanes as we saw plenty of them come up from the Caribbean.

Lets let the pieces fall into place this season & lets see what happens.I think more people are being mis-informed than informed with all this Dry May & Bermuda High speculation.

More #'s to think about..1962 was a very dry May with only 0.92 inches of rain @ MIA & there were only 5 NS & none came close to South Fla.

1967 was another fairly dry May & once again no storms touched South Fla or Florida as a whole for that matter.

There were many dry Mays in the 70s & 80s that produced NO hurricanes for South Fla..

So lets give the Bermuda High & Dry May theory a rest for a while..As this post shows there really is little to go on & to base your entire perception on a what appears to be a urban legend is not very smart & is only mis-informing the average Joe who might be new to this forum.


While I do appreaciate the hard work you've put in. CLearly there is evidence of increased risk of Hurricane hits for very dry seasons as compared to very wet seasons. So, keep an eye on the rainfall folks. Dry as a bone here in Tampa so far and predicted to stay that way for another week at least. Don't believe - have a read.

By Maya Bell
Miami Bureau
Posted April 27 2005

MIAMI -- Just about everybody knows that April showers bring May flowers, but weather forecaster Jim Lushine has discovered something just as commendable about rainy Mays: They might ward off hurricanes.

During 33 years of predicting South Florida's weather, Lushine, a meteorologist for the National Weather Service in Miami, has found a link between May rainfall and the chances of hurricanes striking South Florida.

When May rainfall exceeds the regional average of 5 inches, the risk decreases. But when rainfall is less than normal, the likelihood of a strike increases. "It's kind of the lynchpin on whether it will be an active season for us," Lushine said.

His outlook for this May: perhaps normal, which Lushine said could mean some close calls for South Florida.

Lushine is quick to note that there are no guarantees. But bolstering his theory, last May turned out to be a very dry month, with just 2 inches of rain.

And lest anyone need any reminders, an unprecedented four hurricanes struck Florida last year. Two storms, Frances and Jeanne, made landfall in southeast Florida, near the St. Lucie and Martin county line.

In contrast, May 2003 dumped a whooping 14 inches of rain on the area and, if Lushine's theory holds water, shielded the region from what was an even more active hurricane season than last year's, which produced 15 named storms.

Of the 16 named storms in 2003, only Tropical Storm Henri bothered Florida, and just barely. By the time it crossed Central Florida, Henri was just a pesky tropical depression.

"These are two extremes, with 2003 being great for us and 2004 being terrible for us," Lushine said. "What usually happens is something in between those kinds of patterns, and that's the kind of pattern we're in right now. It looks like this May could be a `tweener year."

That could mean the six-month 2005 hurricane season, which begins June 1, may be reminiscent of the 1999 season, when a parade of storms marched toward Florida but veered north before striking. The most memorable example was Floyd, a behemoth that taunted Florida's east coast before slamming the Carolinas.

Like all hurricanes, Floyd's path was controlled by the transient low and high pressure systems in the atmosphere, the same lows and highs that influence South Florida's rainfall.

When they're near, low-pressure systems generally protect Florida during hurricane season. Spinning counterclockwise, the same direction as a hurricane, they push storms away. Lighter in weight, they also allow air to rise, producing more rain -- hence, the correlation Lushine found between rainy Mays and fewer hurricanes.

Conversely, high-pressure systems blow clockwise, blocking hurricanes from changing course. Heavier in weight, they also cause air to sink, producing less rain.

So, what makes May so special in determining hurricane activity?

May, Lushine said, usually marks the transition between South Florida's two seasons, wet and dry, and the pressure patterns present during the month often persist.

"May controls our rainy season, and something that is strong enough to cause the rainy season to come earlier or later is strong enough to last the whole season," he said.

Lushine first noticed the link between dry Mays and increased hurricane probabilities in South Florida in 1992, the same year Hurricane Andrew, a top-of-the-chart Category 5, leveled much of south Miami-Dade County.

That May proved to be the second driest on record, producing only 0.9 inches of rain. The driest May, with 0.6 inches of rain, Lushine found, came in 1965, the year Hurricane Betsy, a major Category 3 storm, swamped the upper Keys.

Lushine said he didn't think much of the coincidence until Andrew struck. Then he started reviewing May data, finding the third driest May in 1935, when the Labor Day hurricane, the strongest on record to hit the United States, slammed into the Keys.

Plotting 75 years worth of May rainfall data, Lushine found the probability of a hurricane striking South Florida almost tripled after a very dry May. Conversely, the chances of a hurricane striking South Florida after a wet May were three times less. Others are skeptical, but after 42 years with the weather service, Lushine, 60, has enough faith in his May theory that he plans to pin his retirement on next month's rainfall. "If it's wet, I'll stick around to the end of September," he said. "If it's dry, I'm going to wave bye-bye and head to Alaska."
0 likes   

User avatar
BayouVenteux
S2K Supporter
S2K Supporter
Posts: 775
Age: 63
Joined: Thu Sep 04, 2003 3:26 pm
Location: Ascension Parish, Louisiana (30.3 N 91.0 W)

#7 Postby BayouVenteux » Wed May 11, 2005 5:16 pm

Just to add some current data to the friendly debate, here's the "for the month" rainfall totals for the main NWS reporting offices in south Florida, as of this morning, 5/11/05, followed by May precipitation averages for same locations, courtesy of the Southeastern Regional Climate Center:

Ft. Lauderdale: .92" / 6.65"
Key West: .74" / 3.46"
Naples: .59" / 4.19"
Miami: 3.96" / 6.21"
West Palm Beach: 2.37" / 6.13"

Historically, the south Florida "rainy season" doesn't start to get underway in earnest until mid-to-late May, so the dry numbers could quickly go the other way if the situation should suddenly change, but that's where it generally stands at present.
0 likes   

cyclonaut

#8 Postby cyclonaut » Wed May 11, 2005 5:47 pm

Caneman I know there is evidence but there is also plenty of evidence like I just showed.So to me they cancel each other out somewhat.& while Lushine may be a serious supporter of his theory there are others in his field that don't think much of it.Don't get me wrong I keep track of the May precip thing to,I just wanted to illustrate that there is much more to getting hit by a hurricane than a dry May or a Bermuda High.
0 likes   

caneman

#9 Postby caneman » Wed May 11, 2005 8:49 pm

cyclonaut wrote:Caneman I know there is evidence but there is also plenty of evidence like I just showed.So to me they cancel each other out somewhat.& while Lushine may be a serious supporter of his theory there are others in his field that don't think much of it.Don't get me wrong I keep track of the May precip thing to,I just wanted to illustrate that there is much more to getting hit by a hurricane than a dry May or a Bermuda High.


Well, you make very good points. And I think you're are right on as far as a little below or above average but when you look at significant dry conditions there does seem to be some correlation to increased Florida landfalls and extreme wet conditions associated with fewer Florida hits.
0 likes   

User avatar
gatorcane
S2K Supporter
S2K Supporter
Posts: 23693
Age: 47
Joined: Sun Mar 13, 2005 3:54 pm
Location: Boca Raton, FL

#10 Postby gatorcane » Wed May 11, 2005 9:45 pm

Cyclonaut --- well I would have to say that that was very articulate and I DO agree that you can't zone in on the Bermuda High. Clearly hurricanes can hit FL from nearly all directions. However, I notice some flaws in your argument: the one major flaw is that you base South Florida rainfall on a single point, that is, you base it off of rainfall in Miami. However, look at rainfall this month to date...Miami has more than most places around S. Florida.

Drier Mays apply to South Florida too...not all of FL. That is because strong East winds in May from the Bermuda High push storms to the west coast of FL so the east coast stays dry. Remember last year was exceptionally wet along the west coast as the summer-time August regime of afternoon/evening storms kicked in around mid-may last year for several days. THAT is VERY uncommon. I've lived in Tampa for over 20 years and never saw that happen. It was weird and I was calling for a very rainy summer pattern. It turned out that it was a very high hurricane pattern :eek:

So my theory is not as simple as saying that a drier South Florida May equals less hurricanes...my theory is as follows:

A drier South Florida May (and wetter West Coast of FL May) indicates the chances for hurricanes hitting FL from the east is less albeit still a possibility. The chances of hurricanes hitting FL from the Caribbean and GOM is higher :eek:

I would say your data largely supports this theory

--Chris
0 likes   

User avatar
Bocadude85
Category 5
Category 5
Posts: 2990
Age: 38
Joined: Mon Apr 18, 2005 2:20 pm
Location: Honolulu,Hi

#11 Postby Bocadude85 » Wed May 11, 2005 9:52 pm

Its been pretty dry here, despite the storms last week
0 likes   

cyclonaut

#12 Postby cyclonaut » Thu May 12, 2005 11:57 am

Well Boca Chris I see what you mean but MIA was the only precip data I got to go on for references.

If you or anyone has more data such as monthly precp totals that go back at least 50 years for other Florida cities let me know.

Also if anyone has a link or info about record highs & lows for Miami & other South Fla cities that go back a while I would like that too.. 8-)
0 likes   

User avatar
gatorcane
S2K Supporter
S2K Supporter
Posts: 23693
Age: 47
Joined: Sun Mar 13, 2005 3:54 pm
Location: Boca Raton, FL

#13 Postby gatorcane » Thu May 12, 2005 12:16 pm

Cyclonaut, it may interesting to look at this historical May data but I don't have it. Anybody?
0 likes   

cyclonaut

#14 Postby cyclonaut » Thu May 12, 2005 12:23 pm

Ive looked & its not easy,I got lucky & found the info for Miami last year but have been unable to find anything else of good use.
0 likes   

MiamiensisWx

#15 Postby MiamiensisWx » Thu Jul 13, 2006 2:09 pm

This is an old topic, but I think it raises some good points and can be quite useful this year, as well as in every year. The dry May theory is all too often used as a magic theory when, in reality, it has several flaws, in my opinion.
0 likes   

clfenwi
Category 5
Category 5
Posts: 3331
Joined: Thu Jun 09, 2005 12:54 pm

#16 Postby clfenwi » Thu Jul 13, 2006 2:17 pm

cyclonaut wrote:Well Boca Chris I see what you mean but MIA was the only precip data I got to go on for references.

If you or anyone has more data such as monthly precp totals that go back at least 50 years for other Florida cities let me know.

Also if anyone has a link or info about record highs & lows for Miami & other South Fla cities that go back a while I would like that too.. 8-)


Precip data: http://www.coaps.fsu.edu/climate_center ... &p=prcpdat

Record highs and lows:

http://www.srh.noaa.gov/mfl/localdata.php

or if you want day-by-day details, go to

http://www.sercc.com/climateinfo/histor ... al_fl.html

and after you click on a station, click "Daily Summary Stats", near the bottom of the left frame.

And I know I've pointed out this before, but here goes again:



Bermuda High theories: South Florida's rainy May should mean a lower chance of hurricanes hitting the region in August and September, National Weather Service meteorologist Jim Lushine said in a much-publicized prediction based on the enigmatic Bermuda High. The veteran forecaster later said he was almost right — South Florida didn't get the worst of Katrina or Rita, for example. (And Wilma didn't come until late October.) Still, Lushine acknowledged at his retirement dinner Sept. 30: " 'When it's wet in May, you're OK' — you'll never hear that one again." http://www.palmbeachpost.com/storm/cont ... _1201.html
0 likes   


Return to “Talkin' Tropics”

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: Beef Stew, Lizzytiz1 and 42 guests