Camile not as bad as I thought!!!!

[AL Chili Pepper]

map seems to indicate that the 100+ m.p.h. winds remained over the water and barrier islands (is is typical) In Pensacola, winds seem to be 80-90 m.p.h., in the cat 1 range

I believe you're right. The highest recorded winds that I've seen were at the Pensacola NAS (~105 mph) and the battleship on Mobile Bay (101 mph). Both locations right on the water.

[x-y-no]

If this is indeed the case then I never repeat never want to live through a true 3,4, or 5 storm.

Amen to that. I was in what was probably the Cat 3 zone of the north side of Andrew (one mile west of the old hurricane center) and that was much more than I ever care to experience again.

Jan

[Opal storm]

Oh I am sure. It was officially 120 mph sustained after the post-analysis.

There's really no knowing,Ivan could've been a cat 4 and we would not know.Becuase where the strongest winds were (perdido Key area) the entire area was wiped out by storm surge,they could not distinguish the difference between what was wind damage and what was caused by surge.Although,many upper stories of those hotels and condos were GONE.There really was no good reason to mark Ivan as 120mph from 130mph,only a 10mph difference.

[Anonymous]

True...but 130 mph is still a cat 3

[Derek Ortt]

again everyone,

disregard the above statement from OS

There is a significant difference between 115-120 and 130-135 m.p.h. winds. That mere 10 m.p.h. difference is often the difference between your roof remaining on, or being blown off

[Opal storm]

I don't think the city of Pensacola proper experienced over 85-90 mph SUSTAINED winds with Ivan(Cat 2 gusts, yes). A lot of the damage near the water was from surge(which was actually low for what was supposedly a Strong 3). I think the area around the AL/FL border(RIGHT ALONG THE COAST) may have seen winds around 115-120 mph sustained at landfall.

Oh... and when Opal came through here in 1995(I am 4 1/2 hours from the coast), it was still a Cat 1. We were just outside the eastern eyewall and we had winds of 75-85 mph for several hours(in the middle of the night like Ivan) and gusts up to 90-100 mph. It was the 1st hurricane(and only one) I experienced, and yes, it felt scarier than a Cat 1, but it really was only one. We were lucky it weakened before landfall or it would have been much worse. That thing was racing northeast.

A lot of people think the only damage Pensacola recieved from Ivan was storm surge,which is dead wrong.Pensacola Bay area had severe widespread wind damage inland.The damage did not even come close to that of a cat 1,it was more like a weak 3 (especially in Pensacola.)Most say that the damage was so bad becuase we did have sustained hurricane force winds for a long time during Ivan,which I agree with but most people will agree with me that the winds that night were pretty bad to say the least,especially around 1-2 o'clock that morning.The winds started to become more sustained and became this very loud howling noise and I could here debris hitting the side of my house.The next morning there were no trees standing,if any were they were leaning and had the bark ripped off of them and debris from houses away was covering the entire ground.I'm not going to believe other people who did not even experience the storm let alone go to pensacola tell me I only experienced a category 1 hurricane.

Also,if you think Ivan's surge was "low" for a strong major hurricane,you are clueless.Ivan was one of the biggest surge making storms,the surge was most likely greater than a cat 3.

[tallywx]

It's so interesting to see the psychology of how hurricanes are held up to such a higher "standard" than other wind occurrences of similar of even less magnitude. If significant damage occurs from a hurricane, well that means it COULDN'T have been less than 130 mph SUSTAINED winds that caused it.

But let's think for a minute at what 115 MPH, or even 100 MPH sustained winds can do. A severe thunderstorm warning is issued, among other things, for when wind GUSTS reach 58 mph or higher. That's considered "severe." When derechos trek across the country and produce wind GUSTS of 90 mph, perhaps up to 100 mph, that's considered extreme, and cause quite widespread damage.

Yet when a hurricane causes widespread damage, people find it unfathomable to think that a 90-105 mph SUSTAINED wind could do that.

Let's recall one thing from Charleston and Hurricane Hugo. The highest sustained windspeed the Charleston International Airport recorded was 78 mph. Repeat, 78 mph. Peak gust...98 mph. Less than 100 mph, folks. Downtown Charleston? Try 87 mph gusts to 108 mph. Let's recall what type of damage that did to the city.

So when we see that Pensacola NAS sustained and gusted to around the same speed as in downtown Charleston...in other words, high category 1/low category 2 conditions in isolated spots, it is not a stretch to consider the extent of damage that such winds can cause. A 100 mph wind, even in gusts, is a heck of a lot of wind.

Another example: Hurricane Kate in 1985, which "blasted" through Tallahassee, FL. Trees down everywhere. Power out to 90% of residents, in some places for up to two weeks. The highest wind GUST reported at the Tallahassee Regional Airport from that storm...68 mph. Tropical storm force. Some private gauges caught upwards of 80-85 mph gusts, depending on where you were in the city. Gusts barely into category 1 hurricane force range. Seared into Tallahasseeans memories...considered the worst disaster ever to hit the city.

As for damage patterns, one can tell NOTHING about sustained winds because the extent of damage that occurs was created by the maximum wind experienced...in other words, the gusts. If you see roofs taken off homes in a pattern that suggests 130 mph winds...sure, but those were the gusts that did it.

[Opal storm]

True...but 130 mph is still a cat 3

I didn't say Ivan WAS a 4.

[Opal storm]

again everyone,

disregard the above statement from OS

There is a significant difference between 115-120 and 130-135 m.p.h. winds. That mere 10 m.p.h. difference is often the difference between your roof remaining on, or being blown off

I'm tired of this Derek,Im just trying to post my opinion on things and you have been bashing throughout this thread when I have said nothing about you.I'm done with this discussion.

[Anonymous]

105-110 mph:
EXAMPLE: ISABEL '03 (HIT NC AT 105 MPH)


115-120 mph:
EXAMPLE: FRAN '96 (HIT NC AT 115 MPH)


130-140 mph:
EXAMPLE: HUGO '89 (HIT SC AT 140 MPH)


145-155 mph:
EXAMPLE: CHARLEY '04 (HIT FL AT 150 MPH)


160-165 mph:
EXAMPLE: ANDREW '92 (HIT FL AT 165 MPH)

[Anonymous]

True...but 130 mph is still a cat 3

I didn't say Ivan WAS a 4.

I never said you did.

[Steve]

I didn't read most of the thread,
only pages 1 and 8.
But we went to the MS coast
the summer after Camile and most
summers after that for the next 10 years.
Forget Opal, Ivan, Charley or any other
recent storm but Andrew. Concrete
hotels were mashed leaving nothing
but swimming pools (surge involved).
My guess on the windspeeds was born out by a
couple of mets who said all the gauges broke
most likely from a storm that exploded
into massive tornados upon landfall.
We now know, from that star eyewall
a few years ago, about eyewall
vortices which may have been confused
by tornados. But the guess is that gusts
of near 200mph were felt in Hancock
Co. Henderson Point, Waveland
Long Beach, Gulfport and Bay St. Louis
all received massive devastation.

And unless I'm wrong, Camile remained
classified as a Tropical Storm all the way
until it exited the US in I think Virginia.

If ever there was a Cat 5 besides Gilbert
*Gilbert still scares me many years
later*, it was Camile. We lost power
in Gentilly, but it was all over by
morning. There were plenty of leaves
and limbs down, but that was it here.

Steve

[MGC]

Steve, My father took us on a drive a couple of days after Camille. We lived out in NO East at the time. We headed east on Hwy 90. Once we got past Chef Pass the marsh was covered with the remains of camps that were reduced to little pieces of wood. About a mile down the road we had to turn around because a partially destroyed camp was blocking the road. I didn't get to see the damage up close on the Miss coast till the next summer. We were amazed at the damage......MGC

[vbhoutex]

I saw that damage on the coast and inland in October of 1969. My parents saw it as some of the first to be let along the roads close to the beaches or on the beaches in mid September. It was TOTAL DESTRUCTION by surge on the coast and by wind as you moved past the bluffs inland. It literally brought both my parents and I to tears. As I have stated before, I would never wish what caused that destruction on my worst enemy. I can not imagine the horror of living through it! I actually clocked on my odometer for 8.1 miles along the coast an area in which nothing was left standing for at least a quarter of a mile inland if not 1/2 a mile and if you went inland in that same area there was very little left where the surge hadn't been also.

[Matt-hurricanewatcher]

Wow that Andrew damage looks to be winds of 175 to 180 mph. Holy shoot.



Charley 150 mph.

[SouthernWx]

There's really no knowing,Ivan could've been a cat 4 and we would not know.

Sorry friend, but I beg to differ....this isn't 1992 (or earlier). We now have a wonderful tool called doppler radar which gives a pretty good estimate of the sustained wind speed as a hurricane moves ashore.

As Ivan moved ashore, the Mobile and Eglin AFB Nexrads showed winds just off the surface consistent with a 120-125 mph cat-3....just as the Tampa Bay WSFO Nexrad displayed clear indications the tiny eyewall of Charley possessed winds approaching cat-5 intensity (150-155 mph).

If there'd been doppler radar operational in Miami back in August 1992, we'd have immediately known it was a 170 mph cat-5 monster approaching south Dade....not the 140 mph cat-4 as believed.

[tallywx]

Good post with pics, Floydbuster, but I'd like to point out something startling. That photo of Hurricane Hugo damage is of the famed Atlantic House restaurant at Folly Beach, which fell under Hugo's western eyewall. The official wind gauge at Folly Beach only reported winds sustained at 85 mph, gusts to 107 mph. So in that image, one can clearly see what low category 2 winds can do.

[Derek Ortt]

OS,

when you stop misguiding everyone into believing that you went through more than a cat 1, then I will stop. It is your attitude that causes people to stay needlessly as they think they survived more than they did. It was people in Grand Lagoon thinking they survived a major hurricane in Opal that caused them to be dead and I am concerned that you will be a statistic in the next one, which is why I am trying to get through to you

[AL Chili Pepper]

I'm not disputing the fact that Andrew and Charley were monster storms, but those last two photos of Andrew's and Charley's aftermath appear to be mobile home parks. That's like comparing apples to oranges.

[Steve]

>>As Ivan moved ashore, the Mobile and Eglin AFB Nexrads showed winds just off the surface consistent with a 120-125 mph cat-3....just as the Tampa Bay WSFO Nexrad displayed clear indications the tiny eyewall of Charley possessed winds approaching cat-5 intensity (150-155 mph).

Ivan also had some serious tornadic activity.
I talked to one of the secretaries at Whitney
Bank's Alabama HQ's on I-65 in Mobile. She told me
that half of her front yard and part of her house were
destroyed by a twister and that there were numerous
similar signs of devastation throughout. I can say that
passing through Baldwin and Escambia Counties last
month that you could see the same thing along the I-10.
There would be a little spot with a bunch of snapped
trees and right across the street or two feet away
everything was relatively normal.

Also Ivan brought quite a storm surge with it. I'm not
convinced the surge modeling predictors are always
accurate nor is there any truly defined parameters
with different storms. They're all shaped slightly
different. They all make landfall in slightly different
places. They all have their own unique qualities.
While we may have a general handle, you really
never know until a storm blows through at a certain
heading with a certain windspeed and thrust.

Steve