If you've ever wondered (hurricane Camille advisory #17)

[HollynLA]

Yes, that definitely did send chills down my spine. I hear stories from people who experienced (or atleast remembers well) Camille. Some of the pictures and descriptions of what went on that night is absolutely terrifying to say the least.

Our time is up for another Camille. It will happen again, and probably in our lifetime.

[rtd2]

I live in Hattiesburg right now.

And I almost left for Ivan. If anything was worse than Ivan headed right where Camille hit you better believe I'd be heading for Chattanooga.

My parents stayed in a Double wide Mobile home through Camille They were In Ocean Springs Ms about 12 Miles inland...There was homes destroyed all around them! The Mobile home Lost part of its roof but still stands Today! The also Rode out Elena in 1985 But had sold it and built a house by the time Georges rolled around in 1998! I think the Mobile home was built Up north for Blizzard areas? I don't know they Bought it used and Before I was born.... They look back and say WOW we were STUPID and Lucky! ...Side note the Left there New Stick built Home for Ivan last year when it was making a track Towards Jackson county and had it not been for the last minute NE turn and Dry air weaken the Core Who Knows what would have happen!

[HurricaneBill]

Nope, nothing intimidating about an advisory stating 190 mph winds heading in your direction.

Wasn't there mass evacuation for Camille? If there wasn't... There should've been.

Gulf coast residents were warned that Camille would possibly be the most violent storm to hit the U.S.

I'm pretty sure mass evacuations were issued.

[vbhoutex]

I remember that advisory and that night!! I WILL NEVER FORGET IT AS LONG AS I LIVE!!! I lived in Gulf Breeze when Camille hit. Next to the direct hit we recieved by Alicia here in Houston it is by far the most frightening thing I have ever been through!!! Seeing the aftermath was even worse in some ways and what I have read here tonight confirms everything I saw.

[SouthernWx]

It's stunning to realize that was a NHC hurricane advisory unlike no other...not before or since.

The only U.S. landfalling hurricanes in the same intensity range as Camille were the 1935 Labor Day hurricane and Andrew....
In 1935, hurricane forecasting and dissimenation of warnings was very primitive compared to 1969 and especially in 2005. In all honesty, those folks in the Keys never knew what hit them; while the Miami WBO knew it was a hurricane, and apparently a strong one (based on warning messages of a "hurricane of considerable intensity but small diameter" sent to mariners in the Florida Straits), but nothing close to 190 mph was expected.

In 1992, we all knew Andrew was a very powerful hurricane approaching the Bahamas (listed as 150 mph in the Sunday 5 p.m. NHC advisory), but in subsequent advisories that Sunday night....the intensity was lowered to 140 mph in all NHC advisories and bulletins...even the 5 a.m. Monday advisory as Andrew was coming onshore (140 mph and 932 mb).

I'll admit I thought that estimate too low...because of radar and satellite imagery suggesting at least 150-160 mph or greater sustained winds at landfall; also suggesting Andrew was "bombing" at time of landfall after passing over the 86-87° Gulf Stream. Even so, no one in South Dade had reason to expect a 170 mph cat-5....because NONE of the NHC advisories warned of a hurricane that intense.

Admittedly the NHC advisories and Weather Channel OCM's were alarming the morning before hurricane Opal roared ashore....and I was very worried about my folks here in Georgia (I was living in Jackson, Mississippi at the time); but even so, it was at worst a 150 mph monster I was expecting....not 190 (and I had a feeling Opal would weaken....knew the near shore sst's offshore the Florida panhandle were 76-78°). I knew it would be bad, but my thinking was Donna/ Hugo/ Carla type cat-4 intensity as opposed to Camille (I didn't anticipate Opal weakening to 120 mph before landfall either...was expecting 135 to 145 mph or so).

I just sit and try to imagine what the reaction would be today...from news media and on these boards if an extreme hurricane was on course for some coastal area....hurricane warnings were posted, landfall expected within 6-12 hours, and recon reported back 182 kt (210 mph) winds at flight level and a surface central pressure of 901 mb/ 26.61"....an emergency NHC advisory stating maximum sustained winds had increased to 190 mph

PW

[Matt-hurricanewatcher]

We seen something close to that with Charley.

[southerngale]

Wow...chilling!!

[mobilebay]

It's stunning to realize that was a NHC hurricane advisory unlike no other...not before or since.

The only U.S. landfalling hurricanes in the same intensity range as Camille were the 1935 Labor Day hurricane and Andrew....
In 1935, hurricane forecasting and dissimenation of warnings was very primitive compared to 1969 and especially in 2005. In all honesty, those folks in the Keys never knew what hit them; while the Miami WBO knew it was a hurricane, and apparently a strong one (based on warning messages of a "hurricane of considerable intensity but small diameter" sent to mariners in the Florida Straits), but nothing close to 190 mph was expected.

In 1992, we all knew Andrew was a very powerful hurricane approaching the Bahamas (listed as 150 mph in the Sunday 5 p.m. NHC advisory), but in subsequent advisories that Sunday night....the intensity was lowered to 140 mph in all NHC advisories and bulletins...even the 5 a.m. Monday advisory as Andrew was coming onshore (140 mph and 932 mb).

I'll admit I thought that estimate too low...because of radar and satellite imagery suggesting at least 150-160 mph or greater sustained winds at landfall; also suggesting Andrew was "bombing" at time of landfall after passing over the 86-87° Gulf Stream. Even so, no one in South Dade had reason to expect a 170 mph cat-5....because NONE of the NHC advisories warned of a hurricane that intense.

Admittedly the NHC advisories and Weather Channel OCM's were alarming the morning before hurricane Opal roared ashore....and I was very worried about my folks here in Georgia (I was living in Jackson, Mississippi at the time); but even so, it was at worst a 150 mph monster I was expecting....not 190 (and I had a feeling Opal would weaken....knew the near shore sst's offshore the Florida panhandle were 76-78°). I knew it would be bad, but my thinking was Donna/ Hugo/ Carla type cat-4 intensity as opposed to Camille (I didn't anticipate Opal weakening to 120 mph before landfall either...was expecting 135 to 145 mph or so).

I just sit and try to imagine what the reaction would be today...from news media and on these boards if an extreme hurricane was on course for some coastal area....hurricane warnings were posted, landfall expected within 6-12 hours, and recon reported back 182 kt (210 mph) winds at flight level and a surface central pressure of 901 mb/ 26.61"....an emergency NHC advisory stating maximum sustained winds had increased to 190 mph

PW

If it was coming into Mobile, the following would be my reaction!

[Byrd]

We well remember that Sunday night--listening to reports of that huge storm hitting the Mississippi coast. At one time we heard some reporter say "Winds may reach 200 miles per hour." WHAT?

We live in west central Alabama and are very familiar with the area that was hit, and actually saw the damage two or three weeks later. The coast highway looked as if the storm happened the day before.

We will never forget it, and that began our interest in and fear of hurricanes!

Byrd

[canegrl04]

"interupting Hee-Haw"

I would've settled for a commerical about hemmoroid treatment interupting Hee-Haw

[patsmsg]

Great post. I was a kid living in Ocean Springs when Camille came ashore, and my family spent the night in a shelter at Keesler AFB. (Our neighborhood was evacuated.) I have always had a healthy respect for the power of these storms since.

I now live with my family in Picayune(farther inland), and this post confirms for me that despite my new location, we are still in harms way.

Thanks for the post. It was a good reminder for me.

[bevgo]

I was just a kid when Camille hit. I lived in Meridian MS at the time. We went to FL shortly after on vacation and drove home through the coast. I remember scens of hgy 90 destroyed in places, clothes and other debris in trees and that was nafter the clean-up. Many buildings were totally gone with steps and driveways leading to foundations only and swimming pools in empty lots. That was when my fasination with hurricanes began and has never died.

[SouthernWx]

We seen something close to that with Charley.

While I admit Charley bombing was alarming to witness...especially considering the area it was impacting, 941 mb is nothing compared to a hurricane below 910 mb....which is a rare event even far at sea.

To put it in perspective, if a hurricane develops in mid August and recon reports back a pressure of 901 mb/ 26.61", even in 2005 that would be the 4th most intense Atlantic hurricane of record. If they reported flight level winds of 182 kts, that would be to my knowledge, the 2nd highest flight level wind of record (recon reported 183 kt in Allen on August 7, 1980 w/ central pressure of 899 mb; peak flight level winds measured in Gilbert were 173 kt).

The only hurricane emergency even close to the magnitude of Camille late that Sunday afternoon was IMO hurricane Opal around daybreak on October 4, 1995...when recon reported a sharp drop to 916 mb and then 152 kt flight level winds, and for a couple hours we weren't sure if Opal had peaked out or was still deepening. Once the sharp weakening trend was reported (934 mb around mid morning), I breathed a huge sigh of relief.....while Opal was bad, it could have been much, much worse (disaster vs major catastrophe).

We were extremely lucky Opal occurred in early October....if it had been a few weeks earlier (with warmer near shore sst's), we could have well witnessed another Camille type scenario....a deepening cat-5 moving toward landfall the northern Gulf Coast.

FYI...
While folks along the northern Gulf Coast can never let down their guard, in all honesty....an extreme intensity hurricane landfall similar to Camille is extremely unlikely to ever occur there again in any of our lifetimes. I've researched hurricane records back to 1845, and Camille is the ONLY landfalling hurricane along the northern Gulf Coast I can find with even estimates of sustained winds over 150 mph.

If you want to know the most likely place in America to see a landfalling catastrophic hurricane....it's the Florida Keys.
In addition to the monstrous 1935 Labor Day hurricane, another cat-5 hurricane struck Key West in October 1846....and a possible cat-5 struck the lower Keys in September 1919. The 1919 hurricane is listed as a 130-135 kt cat-4 at NHC, but there is evidence (based on extrapolation of observed minimum barometric pressures between Key West and Sand Key light) the true central pressure as the hurricane passed south of Key West was at or slightly below 920 mb (as opposed to the "official" 927 mb value assigned by NHC...which was based on a ship report near Dry Tortugas).

PW

[Huckster]

Perry,
The Aug. 1856 Storm is listed at 150 mph, and Audrey is a close second at 145 mph. I think the Aug. 1886 storm that hit Texas is listed at 155 mph at landfall, and I think the 1900 storm was 145 mph. Those are the only ones that really come close, I believe. Would you dare to submit a guestimate on what the re-analysis on Betsy will reveal? The last coordinate position before landfall has winds at 155 mph, but TPC lists it as a cat. 3.

[SouthernWx]

Perry,
The Aug. 1856 Storm is listed at 150 mph, and Audrey is a close second at 145 mph. I think the Aug. 1886 storm that hit Texas is listed at 155 mph at landfall, and I think the 1900 storm was 145 mph. Those are the only ones that really come close, I believe. Would you dare to submit a guestimate on what the re-analysis on Betsy will reveal? The last coordinate position before landfall has winds at 155 mph, but TPC lists it as a cat. 3.

I don't know about those numbers shown on the Unisys page for Betsy...155 mph just seems too high for a 940's mb hurricane of that size (Betsy was a fairly large hurricane with 64 kt winds out 80 miles and 35 kt winds out up to 300 miles from the center). My personal estimate of Betsy's intensity at landfall in Louisiana is 115 kt (130-135 mph)...a borderline cat-3/4 hurricane.

[skywarn]

Perry,
The Aug. 1856 Storm is listed at 150 mph, and Audrey is a close second at 145 mph. I think the Aug. 1886 storm that hit Texas is listed at 155 mph at landfall, and I think the 1900 storm was 145 mph. Those are the only ones that really come close, I believe. Would you dare to submit a guestimate on what the re-analysis on Betsy will reveal? The last coordinate position before landfall has winds at 155 mph, but TPC lists it as a cat. 3.

I don't know about those numbers shown on the Unisys page for Betsy...155 mph just seems too high for a 940's mb hurricane of that size (Betsy was a fairly large hurricane with 64 kt winds out 80 miles and 35 kt winds out up to 300 miles from the center). My personal estimate of Betsy's intensity at landfall in Louisiana is 115 kt (130-135 mph)...a borderline cat-3/4 hurricane.

There were confirmed reports of gusts to 150 mph at landfall (near Grand Isle) but I think you are right about Betsy's sustained winds of 135 mph.

[EmeraldCoast1]

As bad as Camille was, think about the fact that it was a very small storm and was moving fairly quickly.

A Camille with the size of Ivan and the slow speed of 3-5 mph would be beyond what most of us could imagine, in terms of destructive power.

[mikey mike]

I remember that night well.We were at my uncle's house in Long Beach,MS,not far from where the eye of Camille came ashore.The constant howling of the wind sent chills down my spine.We all had to get in the interior hallway of the house as 2 large trees laid over onto the house.Thankfully they didn't come crashing down or we would hve been in a fix.Nobody slept that night.The other thing I remember is this newscaster begging people to evacuate.Unfortunately many did not and lost their lives.
The next morning was incredible.Never have I before or since seen so much destruction.It was a miserable existence for weeks.We had to go to the neighborhood school to get food and water because the grocery stores were either damaged,destroyed,or without power.
All in all a very scary experience for an 11 yr old kid.

[frederic79]

Here is the site address to another chilling account of Hurricane Camille:

http://www.angelfire.com/ms3/n5ycn/camille.html

I wish I could find another I read about three years ago from a then-active airman stationed at Keesler who went into great detail about the whole expirience he had with Camille. Unfortunately on the web there are many duplications of the same information and I can't find it.

One more thing... does anyone have access to the SST information from August of 1969 for the northern Gulf? Even a small sampling would help construct a larger picture of the type of oceanic environment in which Camille thrived.

[SouthernWx]

Here is the site address to another chilling account of Hurricane Camille:

http://www.angelfire.com/ms3/n5ycn/camille.html

One more thing... does anyone have access to the SST information from August of 1969 for the northern Gulf? Even a small sampling would help construct a larger picture of the type of oceanic environment in which Camille thrived.

That's a nice website, but I have difficulty believing the author was inside Camille's eye (esp. for 45 minutes)....if he indeed lived 12 miles east of Pass Christian. The eye of hurricane Camille was extremely small...only about 11 statute miles in diameter at time of landfall; meaning the author would have had to be within 5 or 6 miles to have caught even the edge.

I also seriously doubt peak gusts reached 230 mph (200 kts). Yes, Camille was extremely intense, but from all information available, sustained winds were around 175-180 mph....and peak gusts likely in the 200-215 mph range (or a low end F4 tornado). Finally, the peak storm surge measured by NOAA was 24.6'....not 27'.

As for sst's, I'm not aware of anywhere data for 1969 is available....but if sea surface temps were average for mid August in that area, the oceanic heat content was more than adequate for a cat-5 monster. Hurricane Camille tracked from western Cuba toward SE Lousiana/ Mississippi and traversed the "Loop Current", a western extension of the Gulf Stream....which also added to the oceanic heat potential.

The high octane fuel is sufficent for a cat-5 during mid August across the middle and southeastern Gulf of Mexico in most years....so the reason Camille reached the ultimate intensity while most other canes fall short? The enviroment surrounding the hurricane was perfect; inflow from the south with a long fetch over extremely warm waters near Panama.....plus a strong southerly jet to the west of Camille as it tracked NNW through the Gulf of Mexico serving to vent the hurricane....providing excellent outflow at top of the storm. It was similar to the pattern which allowed hurricane Allen to reach record intensity in the Caribbean and western GOM during August 1980.....an anticyclone at upper levels also played an important role in both synoptic situations -- keeping both hurricanes in extremely low shear enviroments while the strong southerly jet to the west enhanced outflow...allowing both hurricanes to reach extreme intensity.

PW