Okay

[wxcrazytwo]

Can someone please inform me the difference between a ULL, MLC, and a true low that forms into a system. Please give examples such as photos and what not. Sometimes I get confused by all these ULL'S Aand MLC'S. Thanks you guys. I believe it was cycloneye that showed me a sample of the bermuda high and its effects on hurricanes, which was awesome by the way..

[Brent]

A MLC is simply a circulation that is NOT at the surface, but rather the mid-levels. You have to look at the low level clouds and look for circulation(i.e. moving east south of the circulation) to see if it's an LLC.

http://www.ssd.noaa.gov/PS/TROP/DATA/RT ... /WV/20.jpg

The area just off Florida(not the convection off the Bahamas) is an ULL. It's basically a trough that causes shear over tropical cyclones. They can develop, but it usually takes awhile of sitting over water.

I'm having some difficulty finding pictures right now...

[wxcrazytwo]

Thanks Brent as always..

[CentralFlGal]

Brent,

Is this a good representation of the differences between LLC and MLC for us newbies? (Something we can train our eyes on recognizing what's what.)

http://home1.gte.net/anstett/XT_Pg06.htm

[Brent]

There really isn't. I've seen a lot of circulations that look to be LLC's but are simply MLC's(must be an LLC for a tropical depression).

[vbhoutex]

Brent,

Is this a good representation of the differences between LLC and MLC for us newbies? (Something we can train our eyes on recognizing what's what.)

http://home1.gte.net/anstett/XT_Pg06.htm

That is some good concise information that is helpful.

The thing to remember is to look very closely at the visible sat loops and distinguish between your low, middle and high level clouds. That is often difficult to do, but with time it becomes almost second nature. You will actually see clouds that are definitely in the upper levels and these many times are being sheared(blown)away from where the possible circulation center is. MLC or mid-level cirucultion often looks like low level to an untrained eye, but is distinguishable also because you will be able to see that there is another level of clouds below it that is moving differently than that one. You can distinguish the ML clouds by noting that there are higher and lower clouds moving differently than those(no matter which direction it may be). The LLC or low-level circulation(LLCC-low level circulation center)which you must have for a TD is the hardest to distinguish often since it is the lowest level of cloud structure you are looking for(under two other levels). If you find a Circulation center and can see clouds moving West to the North of it, South to the West of it, East to the South of it, and North to the East of it, and you can distinguish that this is a lower level of clouds that looks somewhat like the depictions in your example(banding), then you have found your LLC or LLCC. I hope I haven't muddied the waters too much. Anyone that can add to this or clear it up somewhat is welcome to.

[wxcrazytwo]

Brent,

Is this a good representation of the differences between LLC and MLC for us newbies? (Something we can train our eyes on recognizing what's what.)

http://home1.gte.net/anstett/XT_Pg06.htm

That is some good concise information that is helpful.

The thing to remember is to look very closely at the visible sat loops and distinguish between your low, middle and high level clouds. That is often difficult to do, but with time it becomes almost second nature. You will actually see clouds that are definitely in the upper levels and these many times are being sheared(blown)away from where the possible circulation center is. MLC or mid-level cirucultion often looks like low level to an untrained eye, but is distinguishable also because you will be able to see that there is another level of clouds below it that is moving differently than that one. You can distinguish the ML clouds by noting that there are higher and lower clouds moving differently than those(no matter which direction it may be). The LLC or low-level circulation(LLCC-low level circulation center)which you must have for a TD is the hardest to distinguish often since it is the lowest level of cloud structure you are looking for(under two other levels). If you find a Circulation center and can see clouds moving West to the North of it, South to the West of it, East to the South of it, and North to the East of it, and you can distinguish that this is a lower level of clouds that looks somewhat like the depictions in your example(banding), then you have found your LLC or LLCC. I hope I haven't muddied the waters too much. Anyone that can add to this or clear it up somewhat is welcome to.

Kinda funny that you say that, because I have seen clouds heading west and then clouds below it heading east. I always thoought that was odd. I just assumed that the clouds were the same layers and not different layers going every which way...

[vacanechaser]

Looking at visible satellite images you can notice lower, sort of darker clouds that stream into the center. Sometimes this gives a good hint at a low level system. It all depends on if you can see the low level circulation due to any shear or what have you over the system. You then could see different levels of clouds there. It has worked for me in the past.


Jesse V. Bass III
http://www.vastormphoto.com
Hurricane Intercept Research Team

[CentralFlGal]

I hope I haven't muddied the waters too much. Anyone that can add to this or clear it up somewhat is welcome to.

Not muddy at all, this is excellent. I'll be quietly watching and comparing my observations with others'.

Thanks!

[CentralFlGal]

There really isn't. I've seen a lot of circulations that look to be LLC's but are simply MLC's(must be an LLC for a tropical depression).

Sounds like a fun challenge

[CentralFlGal]

Looking at visible satellite images you can notice lower, sort of darker clouds that stream into the center. Sometimes this gives a good hint at a low level system. It all depends on if you can see the low level circulation due to any shear or what have you over the system. You then could see different levels of clouds there. It has worked for me in the past.


Jesse V. Bass III
http://www.vastormphoto.com
Hurricane Intercept Research Team

I'll definitely try this. Thanks!

[vbhoutex]

I hope I haven't muddied the waters too much. Anyone that can add to this or clear it up somewhat is welcome to.

Not muddy at all, this is excellent. I'll be quietly watching and comparing my observations with others'.

Thanks!

Don't forget to keep asking questions!!