can a hurricane redevelope over a lake

[Astro_man92]

Is it possible for a hurricane to to redevelope over a lake in to at least a tropical depression if it is warm enough?


UPDATE: Sorry I'm biringing this topic back to the front but I was wondering if anyone had any experiances with one of these "Hurricanes" or had any references that thy wanted to share??

[Astro_man92]

and if size matters lets say lake michigan

[jlauderdal]

is it possible for a hurricane to to redevelope over a lake in to at least a tropical depression if it is warm enough

i believe there was a situation over lake okochobee where it strengthned or at least didnt weaken

[Astro_man92]

is it possible for a hurricane to to redevelope over a lake in to at least a tropical depression if it is warm enough

i believe there was a situation over lake okochobee where it strengthned or at least didnt weaken

how warm are the waters there usually

[Wthrman13]

I know this isn't really what you are asking about, but there have been cases where hurricanes, or hurricane-like vortices, have developed over the Great Lakes. These rare events seem to occur during the winter (before the lakes freeze) when an extratropical cyclone and attendant cold air mass move over the relatively warmer lake waters. There was such a system in 1996, dubbed "Hurricane Huron", which had an eye visible in both radar and satellite and at least gale force maximum sustained winds. Here is a link to an article abstract describing this event.

http://ams.allenpress.com/amsonline/?re ... -0477(2000)081%3C0223:HH%3E2.3.CO%3B2

I myself watched a similar event a few years ago, where the center of a wintertime extratropical low drifted over Lake Michigan and developed a small, clear eye in the center.

There is also an entire class of hurricane-like vortices that develop in polar regions, known as polar lows. They also have many structural resemblances to tropical cyclones.

[soonertwister]

I'd imagine that Lake Okeechobee would be near or above 90 degrees for part of the average summer, but that's just a guess. Much deeper lakes and larger lakes in states like Oklahoma and Texas can get well above 90 in July-September. I'd bet the water in some lakes in the desert southwest can get near 100 degrees.

[Astro_man92]

I know this isn't really what you are asking about, but there have been cases where hurricanes, or hurricane-like vortices, have developed over the Great Lakes. These rare events seem to occur during the winter (before the lakes freeze) when an extratropical cyclone and attendant cold air mass move over the relatively warmer lake waters. There was such a system in 1996, dubbed "Hurricane Huron", which had an eye visible in both radar and satellite and at least gale force maximum sustained winds. Here is a link to an article abstract describing this event.

http://ams.allenpress.com/amsonline/?re ... -0477(2000)081%3C0223:HH%3E2.3.CO%3B2

I myself watched a similar event a few years ago, where the center of a wintertime extratropical low drifted over Lake Michigan and developed a small, clear eye in the center.

There is also an entire class of hurricane-like vortices that develop in polar regions, known as polar lows. They also have many structural resemblances to tropical cyclones.

WOW that is so cool

[HURAKAN]

http://www.crh.noaa.gov/dtx/?page=stories/dtxcane

[Thunder44]

is it possible for a hurricane to to redevelope over a lake in to at least a tropical depression if it is warm enough

Ask CBS

[Matt-hurricanewatcher]

Track
http://www.metoffice.com/sec2/sec2cyclo ... 95/01m.gif

[micktooth]

Here is a satellite link to "Hurricane Huron"
http://www.personal.psu.edu/faculty/t/j/tjm128/

[soonertwister]

There was an event that developed near the TX-OK border pretty much due south of OKC or north of Dallas in the early 90's that was very similar to a landlocked hurricane development.

This was one of the strangest things I'd ever seen. Over a period of time a mid-level jet coinciding with an early Canadian cold front was steered by highs in the southwest, south TX and in the southeast, and a strong low center in the upper midlands.

This jet became more and more deformed with a pronounced dip that plunged through western OK into northcentral TX, then surged back north in eastern OK. Over several days the dip became very pronounced, and then developed a teardrop shape as the jet was squeezed from the east and west, with a nearly circular turn of about 300 degrees open at the top, across maybe 60 miles at the bottom.

Eventually, the jet simply bypassed the teardrop loop and moved rapidly back north, leaving a surface to midlevel cutoff low with a very vigorous circulation in northcentral TX. After a day or two the low started moving slowly NNE and passed through northeast OK into southeastern KS and beyond, but the time when it went over my location was what was most memorable to me.

I was aware of the odd situation with the low, but at the time didn't connect the dots of what was happening. On what was mostly a sunny and pleasant late summer day, I noticed an ominous looking feature to the south and southwest that was approaching over some hours.

As it got closer, it had the appearance of an approaching front, without the towering tops expected of the mesoscale storm complexes so common in the area, but with a literal wall of dark and menacing fast-moving clouds towering up to perhaps 20K feet or more, and looking quite scary.

I sat out on a deck and observed the approach of this thing, and as it started to get close the winds picked up higher and higher from the SE or SSE until literally gale force sustained winds were laying the trees over pretty good. As this storm got really close, I could see what looked like a white wall stretching from the ground to well up into the sky. I had no idea what it was, and had never seen anything like it.

It turned out that the white wall was a solid curtain of intense hail of moderate side of maybe 1/2-1 inch, and intensely dense, accompanied by winds of well over 80 mph. After a couple of minutes of that and some moderate rain, suddenly the sky cleared and the wind went completely away.

I went back outside, and from the high vantage point I had at the top of a hill in a spot relatively among the highest for many around, I found out what was going on. There was a circulation center, pretty much perfectly round, and I had just gone through the NE wall of the storm. The entire center was clear and windless. After a couple of hours like that, I got the back side, and more hail and moderate rain with slightly lesser winds of perhaps 60-65 mph, and gradually improving weather after that.

Probably a once-in-a-lifetime event, and really an amazing thing to experience. The local authorities set off the tornado sirens, although there were no reported tornadoes, or even weather warnings of this event.

I wonder to this day if this thing wasn't very close to a real hurricane that developed under highly-aberrant conditions over land. At least in one part of the "eyewall" the winds were certainly of hurricane force, but I don't think it qualified as a true hurricane, because while it perhaps had surface and mid-level stacked lows, it didn't extend up higher in the atmosphere, which is what would be required for a true hurricane.


I did read about an event that supposedly occurred in TX in the 1800's, where supposedly a major hurricane developed in north TX somewhere well west and somewhat north of Dallas. Supposedly that event was also caused by a cutoff low, after many days of record-breaking rain had completely saturated the soil everywhere, and had left standing water and flooded areas widely across the area where the even occurred. According to the article, the absence of any limiting influences combined with the existing surface low, abundant surface water, and intense summer heating created this hurricane, which apparently caused a lot of devastation before it dissipated.

I haven't been able to find the article since, but it was related to the hurricane history of Texas, and may have been included at a site that included hurricane history for that state dating back to the 1500's!

[Matt-hurricanewatcher]

More cyclone over lakes!!!

http://www.metoffice.com/sec2/sec2cyclo ... c2003a.gif

[soonertwister]

HURAKAN,

Can you go back to your earlier post with the really long link that stretched the width of this page, and either remove the link or provide a short name for it, so that we can read this page again without see-sawing back and forth?

Your help in this would be most welcome.

[Matt-hurricanewatcher]

Black sea cyclone



Yet another black sea cyclone
[/img]http://www.metoffice.com/sec2/sec2cyclone/tcimages/Misc/blacksea2.gif[img]

[Astro_man92]

here is an amazing articale
http://www.crh.noaa.gov/dtx/?page=stories/dtxcane

[Astro_man92]

this turned out to be an intresting thread didn't it lol this is really cool i never knew this could or even had happen wow

[wxmann_91]

There was an event that developed near the TX-OK border pretty much due south of OKC or north of Dallas in the early 90's that was very similar to a landlocked hurricane development.

This was one of the strangest things I'd ever seen. Over a period of time a mid-level jet coinciding with an early Canadian cold front was steered by highs in the southwest, south TX and in the southeast, and a strong low center in the upper midlands.

This jet became more and more deformed with a pronounced dip that plunged through western OK into northcentral TX, then surged back north in eastern OK. Over several days the dip became very pronounced, and then developed a teardrop shape as the jet was squeezed from the east and west, with a nearly circular turn of about 300 degrees open at the top, across maybe 60 miles at the bottom.

Eventually, the jet simply bypassed the teardrop loop and moved rapidly back north, leaving a surface to midlevel cutoff low with a very vigorous circulation in northcentral TX. After a day or two the low started moving slowly NNE and passed through northeast OK into southeastern KS and beyond, but the time when it went over my location was what was most memorable to me.

I was aware of the odd situation with the low, but at the time didn't connect the dots of what was happening. On what was mostly a sunny and pleasant late summer day, I noticed an ominous looking feature to the south and southwest that was approaching over some hours.

As it got closer, it had the appearance of an approaching front, without the towering tops expected of the mesoscale storm complexes so common in the area, but with a literal wall of dark and menacing fast-moving clouds towering up to perhaps 20K feet or more, and looking quite scary.

I sat out on a deck and observed the approach of this thing, and as it started to get close the winds picked up higher and higher from the SE or SSE until literally gale force sustained winds were laying the trees over pretty good. As this storm got really close, I could see what looked like a white wall stretching from the ground to well up into the sky. I had no idea what it was, and had never seen anything like it.

It turned out that the white wall was a solid curtain of intense hail of moderate side of maybe 1/2-1 inch, and intensely dense, accompanied by winds of well over 80 mph. After a couple of minutes of that and some moderate rain, suddenly the sky cleared and the wind went completely away.

I went back outside, and from the high vantage point I had at the top of a hill in a spot relatively among the highest for many around, I found out what was going on. There was a circulation center, pretty much perfectly round, and I had just gone through the NE wall of the storm. The entire center was clear and windless. After a couple of hours like that, I got the back side, and more hail and moderate rain with slightly lesser winds of perhaps 60-65 mph, and gradually improving weather after that.

Probably a once-in-a-lifetime event, and really an amazing thing to experience. The local authorities set off the tornado sirens, although there were no reported tornadoes, or even weather warnings of this event.

I wonder to this day if this thing wasn't very close to a real hurricane that developed under highly-aberrant conditions over land. At least in one part of the "eyewall" the winds were certainly of hurricane force, but I don't think it qualified as a true hurricane, because while it perhaps had surface and mid-level stacked lows, it didn't extend up higher in the atmosphere, which is what would be required for a true hurricane.


I did read about an event that supposedly occurred in TX in the 1800's, where supposedly a major hurricane developed in north TX somewhere well west and somewhat north of Dallas. Supposedly that event was also caused by a cutoff low, after many days of record-breaking rain had completely saturated the soil everywhere, and had left standing water and flooded areas widely across the area where the even occurred. According to the article, the absence of any limiting influences combined with the existing surface low, abundant surface water, and intense summer heating created this hurricane, which apparently caused a lot of devastation before it dissipated.

I haven't been able to find the article since, but it was related to the hurricane history of Texas, and may have been included at a site that included hurricane history for that state dating back to the 1500's!

Wow that is pretty cool . Could use one of these in SoCal...wait...on second thought, rather not. Great thread guys!

[senorpepr]

More cyclone over lakes!!!

http://www.metoffice.com/sec2/sec2cyclo ... c2003a.gif

Well, the Mediterranean Sea is actually far from a lake, but yes, tropical cyclones have formed in the Mediterranean. It has also been noted for them to form in the Black Sea, also a sea, but much more "lake-like" than the Mediterranean.

[Houstonia]

GREAT topic y'all. I'm emailing this to my WeatherMom...