Major Hurricane in New York...

[WXFIEND]

I don't know too much about architecture but think: even though the skyscrapers won't TUMBLE over... they wlil still collapse.

many buildings in nyc have large walls made entirely of glass. If the windows are blown out, even of one floor, the internal structure will become much weaker.

Just like on 9/11, if one floor collapses, the floors above it will cascade down upon it, causes it to fall in on itself.

does THAT sound reasonsable?

[Normandy]

Normandy, no offense but i dont think it is a fair comparison to pit buildings along the Alabama coast line to the buildings in NYC. In Alabama they may have high rise buildings but they dont have the skyscrapers like NYC does. Also the tunnelling effect plays a large factor also and Alabama or even the Pensacola coast do not have the large concentration of skyscrapers or even high rise buildings in such a close proximation to one another. This is just an opinion, I'm not trying to dish on your proclaimation.

Here is an excerpt from an article written by a Frank Lepore of the National Hurricane prediction center. Also read some of the studies by a Professor Nicholas Coch he has done extensive research on the subject of the effects of hurricane on NYC also!

* Few high rise building windows in Manhattan are rated for a category
5 hurricane so the wind load on the glass would send it shattering
inward and cascading down to the streets. As the wind became more and
more compressed moving through the buildings, the channelization would
increase the wind velocity. This is known as the Venturi effect
("Bernoulli's theorem -sometimes called the Venturi effect- implies
that a decrease in fluid pressure is associated with an increase in
the fluid's velocity/speed. It's the basics for aircraft wing design
explaining that air flowing over the upper, curved part of the wing
moves faster than the air on the underside of the wing so that the
pressure underneath is greater and hence causes lift." - see
http://www.spartechsoftware.com/reeko/Glossary.htm). As the wind is
compressed faster and faster, the windows would be compromised and the
wind swirling inside the buildings would be, as Lepore put it, "like a
MixMaster." Lepore said that hallways should be safe because of few
or no windows. Also, the wind increases at higher elevations, too, so
marry that to the Venturi effect and the topmost residents of NYC
would be in the most dangerous situation.

I agree but its the closest thing I could find to a high rise structure in NYC...the building in Alabama was probably about 200 feet tall...so yes its a bad comparison.

But even stil, imagine what you would be saying. In order for a building to collapse, its middle to lower structure would have to snap...and the force it takes to do that is tremendous. A Cat3 hurricane doesnt produce the winds to do that imo. If that was the case every major hurricane that hits a major city would level its skyline, and I am POSITIVE if a Cat3 hurricane hit Houston that downtown would still stand.

Now, a Cat5 is a different animal. Thats the equivalent of a F4 tornado.

[Hybridstorm_November2001]

Sadly it does reasonsable.


Hybridstorm_November2001

[Radar]

WX yes, see my post on this ... I included part of an article written by Frank LePore from the National Hurricane Predition Center. It goes into more detail about this!

[Normandy]

I don't know too much about architecture but think: even though the skyscrapers won't TUMBLE over... they wlil still collapse.

many buildings in nyc have large walls made entirely of glass. If the windows are blown out, even of one floor, the internal structure will become much weaker.

Just like on 9/11, if one floor collapses, the floors above it will cascade down upon it, causes it to fall in on itself.

does THAT sound reasonsable?

No, because the manner that the WTC collapsed would probably not happen in a major hurricane, because the minute the upper portion of a building fails (if it does), the winds would likely blow it sideways and not allow for the building to pancake down on itself like the WTC. just my thoughts however.

Glass structures would likely suffer severe structural damage, and I wouldn't be so confident about those.

[Normandy]

Ahh....one thing I didnt take into account was the storm surge....perhaps that could compromise the lower structure of the skyscraper.

[WXFIEND]

well i know there are lots of glass structures in NYC... and even the skyscrapers, most of them have very large windows.

The storm surge would likely weaken the foundations and such. I know my dads office, 1 penn plaza, is right over Penn Station. That would surely be a problem.

And I'm not saying the floor that would blow itself out would be on the top, in which case it probably would blow sideways.

If a floor collapses in the middle of even lower levels, it would need to blow over, the weight of the building would just collapse it right there instantly.

[Astro_man92]

I HIGHLY doubt that the surge would topple any building in new york

[Normandy]

I HIGHLY doubt that the surge would topple any building in new york

And why not? It would be easier for a building to topple over like you suggest if its lower structure is compromised....

I would think the surge (if its really 30 ft like its suppose to be) would have a better chance of knocking over a skyscraper than winds.

Iwell i know there are lots of glass structures in NYC... and even the skyscrapers, most of them have very large windows.

The storm surge would likely weaken the foundations and such. I know my dads office, 1 penn plaza, is right over Penn Station. That would surely be a problem.

And I'm not saying the floor that would blow itself out would be on the top, in which case it probably would blow sideways.

If a floor collapses in the middle of even lower levels, it would need to blow over, the weight of the building would just collapse it right there instantly.

Yes possibly, but if any portion of the building is to fail its probably the higher portions because the winds are stronger there. And I even still have a hard time believing that Cat 3 winds could collapse even a glass building.

[Astro_man92]

if ir is 30 ft then maybe the smaller buildings or the weakened scrapers


if the surge goes up the rivers and breakes thew dams then the water in those resevors will have enough power to destroy everything

[Hybridstorm_November2001]

Also water is like 1000 (I think) times heavier than air, and if it is being pushed by a fast moving storm it would have even greater force behind it.


Hybridstorm_November2001

[Astro_man92]

Ive never experiancest it so I have no idea

[Normandy]

Also water is like 1000 (I think) times heavier than air, and if it is being pushed by a fast moving storm it would have even greater force behind it.


Hybridstorm_November2001

Precisely.
If anything topples sckyscrapers in NYC from a Cat3 then itll probably be surge.

[WXFIEND]

Also don't forget... the buildings in NYC are different from other buildings like in FL and such ( i think).


the storm surge would not only weaken the lower outside of the building... but most buildings, like my dads, have a deep rooted underground and some have subway systems underneath.

so not only would it weaken the lower structure, it would weaken it from underneath too.

[Astro_man92]

I haven't seen it happen on vidoe much less real life so i'm always going to be at least a little sceptical

[Hybridstorm_November2001]

You need look no further than the Asian tsunami to see how destructive water at its' worst can be.


Hybridstorm_November2100

[Normandy]

Also don't forget... the buildings in NYC are different from other buildings like in FL and such ( i think).


the storm surge would not only weaken the lower outside of the building... but most buildings, like my dads, have a deep rooted underground and some have subway systems underneath.

so not only would it weaken the lower structure, it would weaken it from underneath too.

Yes thats also true....
Im a little more sold on the possible collapse of buildings now, but the winds from a Cat3 still wont have anything to do with it imo...itll be the surge.

[Astro_man92]

I'd like to see some an animated video of what a professional scientist might think would happen

[Radar]

I haven't come across any visual animated information on this yet, but I'm looking.

The best thing you can do if you want to learn more about the impact of hurricanes on NYC is to search for articles by Dr Nicholas Coch. He is an Scientist at Queen's College in NY and has done extensive research on the impact of a hurricane in NYC, so much so he has on his business card "Forensic Hurricanologist". Which is a pretty cool title I think.

Please read this article it give the most accurate account of what would happen to NYC and surrounding if a Cat 3 hurricane were to hit during high tide. It also talks about the skyscarper issue we have been discussing!

http://newyorkpress.com/18/29/news&columns/aaronnaparstek.cfm

[smashmode]

A hurricane would not ruin the economy of the US.

Especially after 9-11..companies have made sure that they have base of operations ready to go..all over the country.