Need a loan for gas yet?

[azskyman]

Dennis....we talked about this at lunch yesterday. There is growing need to get relief on fossil fuels. If we started TODAY, it would take 20-25 years for us to find truly alternative sources of vehicle power (I read earlier this week that toxicity from some hybrid cars may be cause more costly problems than oil!). In the meantime, pump prices are changing twice daily here in Phoenix. My son paid $2.82 for the cheapest gas he could find in California...a huge refinery state.

People have gone to war over food and territory and religion and all kinds of other reasons. The idea of going to war specifically over fuel gets closer with every penny it rises.

For those who think the Republicans and Bush are arrogant, take a look at the huge new mall that was put in Saudi Arabia with stores like the Gap and others having marble floors and extravagences everywhere with those oil dollars.

And we need to take a look at home. I am as sensitive as the next guy to the environment and protection of certain animal species, but the American human species is worth saving as we know it too.

We're putting our head in the sand if we think that $3 or $4 or $8 a gallon is acceptable because certain countries know they have the power to do that and the audicity to flaunt their profits along the way.

The price of gas is now impacting every service industry and every person in this country. As a weapon in war, gasoline will be the cause of much more bloodshed in the years to come. And in my mind, the justification for it is growing daily.

[azsnowman]

BRAVO STEVE

Now....the next question, do you think that the economy is fixing to take a DIVE? I do, with gas prices rising ever so quick, take a long look at the groceries your buying. Grocery prices are rising JUST as quick as gas, think about the fast food you eat, they TOO are going to start rising. We (our landscape business) have had to raise OUR prices due to fuel costs and I KNOW without a DOUBT, our clients, Safeway, WALMART, Bashas WILL pass OUR prices on to the bottom line!

Dennis

[feederband]

Dennis....we talked about this at lunch yesterday. There is growing need to get relief on fossil fuels. If we started TODAY, it would take 20-25 years for us to find truly alternative sources of vehicle power (I read earlier this week that toxicity from some hybrid cars may be cause more costly problems than oil!). In the meantime, pump prices are changing twice daily here in Phoenix. My son paid $2.82 for the cheapest gas he could find in California...a huge refinery state.

People have gone to war over food and territory and religion and all kinds of other reasons. The idea of going to war specifically over fuel gets closer with every penny it rises.

For those who think the Republicans and Bush are arrogant, take a look at the huge new mall that was put in Saudi Arabia with stores like the Gap and others having marble floors and extravagences everywhere with those oil dollars.

And we need to take a look at home. I am as sensitive as the next guy to the environment and protection of certain animal species, but the American human species is worth saving as we know it too.

We're putting our head in the sand if we think that $3 or $4 or $8 a gallon is acceptable because certain countries know they have the power to do that and the audicity to flaunt their profits along the way.

The price of gas is now impacting every service industry and every person in this country. As a weapon in war, gasoline will be the cause of much more bloodshed in the years to come. And in my mind, the justification for it is growing daily.

That why I think we should not just accept the higher price of gas ...The cost of this is just to great..It will cause a major global screw up....Build some more refineres here get the oil out of the gulf and alaska and drive down oil prices by not being so dependent on Mid east oil...

[gtalum]

BTW....we hit "2.59 a GALLON TODAY!" $3.00 here we COME, can't WAIT until we invade Iran, Saudi Arabia NEXT! SOON I'm SURE!

Dennis

I don't know if you noticed, but when we invade oil-rich countries the price goes up. DO you really think BP and Shell, etc are going to sell us oil for cheap if they get more control over the supply?

[gtalum]

That why I think we should not just accept the higher price of gas ...The cost of this is just to great..It will cause a major global screw up....Build some more refineres here get the oil out of the gulf and alaska and drive down oil prices by not being so dependent on Mid east oil...

The problem is that we've hit peak production, and the demand keeps rising. You can't turn off economics, no matter how hard you try. We need to find real alternative energy, and fast. Drilling in ANWR and more drilling in the Gulf would be a smart move, but even so it will only buy us a few years and will only shave a few % off of our dependence on foreign oil.

Every drop of oil that you buy funds terorism. Think about that when you scoff at my suggestion you drive a bit less, or drive a mroe fuel-efficient vehicle.

[GalvestonDuck]

Every drop of oil that you buy funds terorism.

Anyone else here old enough to remember the oil crisis during Carter's administration? I remember how bad it was...and I wasn't even driving then.

[sunny]

Every drop of oil that you buy funds terorism.

Anyone else here old enough to remember the oil crisis during Carter's administration? I remember how bad it was...and I wasn't even driving then.

Sure do. I remember runs at gas stations when they DID have gas. It was awful.

I had sticker shock at my electricity bill.

[feederband]

That why I think we should not just accept the higher price of gas ...The cost of this is just to great..It will cause a major global screw up....Build some more refineres here get the oil out of the gulf and alaska and drive down oil prices by not being so dependent on Mid east oil...

The problem is that we've hit peak production, and the demand keeps rising. You can't turn off economics, no matter how hard you try. We need to find real alternative energy, and fast. Drilling in ANWR and more drilling in the Gulf would be a smart move, but even so it will only buy us a few years and will only shave a few % off of our dependence on foreign oil.

Every drop of oil that you buy funds terorism. Think about that when you scoff at my suggestion you drive a bit less, or drive a mroe fuel-efficient vehicle.

Great now you say we all are funding the terrorist..I do drive less but it is because of the price of gas...Actually demand has lessened and supply's are up...The price of oil should be going down not up...Oil company's are the ones making out on this...I guess I'll do what you say sell the car and go live in a cave like UBL....

[sertorius]

Great thread!! This is something I have thought about and discuss quite frequently with my students. Wars have begun for much less than energy sources-Caesar crossed the Rubicon and touched off a 50 year Mediterr. wide war beacuse of his dignitas-Pompey fought Caesar for the same reason. Global warming or not (I really feel that the global warming debate has hurt much more than helped-we are so focused on arguing that, that nobody offers any real solutions) fossil fuels are not a real efficient energy source and should be replaced. They are dirty and make for horrendous world politics. Lets be honest, we are in the Middle east for one reason and one reason only. And yes, John Kerry, Bill Clinton, and Ted Kennedy would be there as well-we were going into Iraq regardless of the party in office-both parties are tied to the oil money regardless of what Faren ht. 9/11 wants to argue.(and also, the env. movement is in for a power and money grab just as much as the oil industry is-most major env. conferences are in plush resorts) My idea: put a 50 year life for fossil fuels-in 50 years, they are illegal. That gives us 50 years to A. concentrate on a formulatin a new energy source. B. Implementing it without too harsh of damage to the economy or constitution. Will it work? If any nation in history could do it, it would be America-we have the resources, capital, and ingenuity to make it happen. Problems: 1. getting off of oil 2. the new source of energy could just as easily create the same problems as oil (example: In the Flint Hills of Kansas there is a push to put up wind turbines which would provide half the state with electricty-well, nobody wants them in thier own back yard or to hurt the natural parrie land-thus, the whole project has been scrapped for now-same thing happened in Cape Cod-Senator Clinton and Kennedy didn't want to see them from thier summer beach houses) This is just my idea-to be real, we are not going to go back to pre internal combustion engine-yes, we can design cities and towns better to where you don't have to drive etc. (as well we should and make more Green spaces) but people are not going to give up the AC or heat. People talk big, but when our temp. is 99 with a dew point of 80 (as it usually is here in August), those same people are inside with the AC blasting. Just my 2 cents-but yes, we will continue to go to war for oil-humans have warred over these issues since the dwan of time (no matter which continent you are on) and will continue to do so.

[gtalum]

Great now you say we all are funding the terrorist..I do drive less but it is because of the price of gas...Actually demand has lessened and supply's are up...The price of oil should be going down not up...Oil company's are the ones making out on this...I guess I'll do what you say sell the car and go live in a cave like UBL....

We are all funding terrorism when we buy gasoline. ~70% of our oil supply comes from overseas, and a big chunk of that comes from Saudi Arabia. Whiel we're technically "allies" with SA, most of the Wahhabbist muslim terrorists originate there, or are funded from there. So we all fund terrorism with every drop of oil that we buy. It's not like you can say, "I'll take some Canadian oil, please" (Canada is our biggest supplier of oil right now).

You may be right, that the demand for oil is going down as prices go up... within the USA. I don't know those numbers. However, the demand for oil overseas (especially China) is increasing at an alarming rate. Unfortunately, the market for oil is truly global, and we have no control over the demand from China. They bid for the same oil futures that we do.

The one fact that we can all agree on is that it's good to be in the oil business right now. I'd suggest to all of you to go a bit energy-heavy in your stock portfolios right now.

[gtalum]

...fossil fuels are not a real efficient energy source and should be replaced. They are dirty and make for horrendous world politics.

When you think about it, the internal combustion engine is 19th century technology. An engine today, with the EPA parts taken off, would be recognizeable to a mechanic from 1899. There is no other piece of technology that we rely on that has been improved less in the ensuing 100+ years. It's time we found other ways to get around.

[feederband]

Just hit $66.00 a barrel..I'm telling s__t going to hit the fan soon...

[Stephanie]

Every drop of oil that you buy funds terorism.

Anyone else here old enough to remember the oil crisis during Carter's administration? I remember how bad it was...and I wasn't even driving then.

I remember - I wasn't driving, but I remember the lines and my Dad having to pay a "minimum" amount. The economy wasn't in great shape either - alot due to the energy crisis.

[kevin]

Just wait till Chavez turns away American ships. I can see that happening in the semi near future.

[feederband]

Just wait till Chavez turns away American ships. I can see that happening in the semi near future.

That would not be good..

[therock1811]

Just hit $66.00 a barrel..I'm telling s__t going to hit the fan soon...

You're kidding me, right?

[feederband]

Just hit $66.00 a barrel..I'm telling s__t going to hit the fan soon...

You're kidding me, right?

Think it went down to 65.50 if you call that down...

[gtalum]

Just wait till Chavez turns away American ships. I can see that happening in the semi near future.

nah, Chavez is all talk. He knows his little communist utopia will shatter without our cash.

[kevin]

What if the Chinese buy all his oil in a USSR/Cuba type relationship? Any chance of that?

[feederband]

What if the Chinese buy all his oil in a USSR/Cuba type relationship? Any chance of that?

I heard of China doing that in other nations...Actually paying off goverments and going in and actually pumping it themselves...