TC Bertha

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wxman57
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Re:

#1621 Postby wxman57 » Sun Jul 06, 2008 9:39 am

Derek Ortt wrote:unless there is a slight decoupling of the low and MLC


The center could be a little south of my crosshairs, but that curved band of higher tops just left of the crosshairs looks like it's wrapping around a center. In any case, the 12Z position was up at 17.2. I think it's north of that now.
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Re: Tropical Storm Bertha in Central Atlantic

#1622 Postby Stephanie » Sun Jul 06, 2008 9:40 am

Great job with the explanation and graphs wxman!

I always look forward to our pro-met's forecasts.
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Re: Tropical Storm Bertha in Central Atlantic

#1623 Postby Javlin » Sun Jul 06, 2008 9:41 am

So whats the deal with the QS?grid pattern off on the overlay I guess?
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MiamiensisWx

Re: Tropical Storm Bertha in Central Atlantic

#1624 Postby MiamiensisWx » Sun Jul 06, 2008 9:41 am

The operational GFS has done well (especially in regards to initial W movement), but I believe it has still been slightly too quick with an eventual WNW turn. Overall, though, it has been decent.
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Re: Tropical Storm Bertha in Central Atlantic

#1625 Postby jlauderdal » Sun Jul 06, 2008 9:42 am

wxman57 wrote:Lots of debate about where's Bertha going overnight and the cause of the current rapid west movement. Will it continue? Let's take a look at the steering currents as depicted by the latest GFS and see if we can see why Bertha has accelerated westward in the past 24 hours:

First, the mean 700mb-400mb wind flow (about 10,000-20,000 ft) across the Atlantic valid right now (10am CDT Sun). As you can see, it's passing right beneath a high center, resulting in a tight east-west wind gradient. That's the reason for the acceleration. But look just to the west and you'll see that the gradient drops off very rapidly later today as Bertha approaches the weakness in the ridge along the TUTT axis.

Image

Now let's look 96 hours out to 10am CDT Thursday and see what the steering currents look like. I've plotted Bertha's 96hr position on the map. Look at that trof digging down along the East U.S. Coast and the position of the Bermuda high northeast of Bertha. A perfect opportunity to recurve out to sea. And for those of you concerned about Florida, not the big "H" sitting over Florida. So if the GFS is even close to being right, the odds of a Florida landfall are slim and chances are, Bertha will begin making the turn north in about 4 days.

Of course, this all assumes that the GFS forecast is good. It seems to have done a good job with Bertha so far, so I see no reason to totally discount it.




Image



And based on the maps and the track I predict a substantial decrease in temper and number of posts. For those of you that like power outages and destruction you will have to wait for the next system. Happy Hurricane Hunting. :cheesy:
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MiamiensisWx

Re: Tropical Storm Bertha in Central Atlantic

#1626 Postby MiamiensisWx » Sun Jul 06, 2008 9:43 am

jlauderdal wrote:And based on the maps and the track I predict a substantial decrease in temper and number of posts. For those of you that like power outages and destruction you will have to wait for the next system. Happy Hurricane Hunting.

Huh?! I thought you stated the majority of south FL members weren't -removed-!

What was the impetus for you to insert the bolded tidbit?
Last edited by MiamiensisWx on Sun Jul 06, 2008 9:56 am, edited 2 times in total.
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#1627 Postby RL3AO » Sun Jul 06, 2008 9:44 am

000
WTNT22 KNHC 061443
TCMAT2
TROPICAL STORM BERTHA FORECAST/ADVISORY NUMBER 14
NWS TPC/NATIONAL HURRICANE CENTER MIAMI FL AL022008
1500 UTC SUN JUL 06 2008

TROPICAL STORM CENTER LOCATED NEAR 17.4N 45.1W AT 06/1500Z
POSITION ACCURATE WITHIN 30 NM

PRESENT MOVEMENT TOWARD THE WEST OR 280 DEGREES AT 18 KT

ESTIMATED MINIMUM CENTRAL PRESSURE 1000 MB
MAX SUSTAINED WINDS 45 KT WITH GUSTS TO 55 KT.
34 KT....... 75NE 30SE 0SW 75NW.
12 FT SEAS..240NE 90SE 60SW 180NW.
WINDS AND SEAS VARY GREATLY IN EACH QUADRANT. RADII IN NAUTICAL
MILES ARE THE LARGEST RADII EXPECTED ANYWHERE IN THAT QUADRANT.

REPEAT...CENTER LOCATED NEAR 17.4N 45.1W AT 06/1500Z
AT 06/1200Z CENTER WAS LOCATED NEAR 17.2N 44.2W

FORECAST VALID 07/0000Z 18.0N 47.8W
MAX WIND 50 KT...GUSTS 60 KT.
50 KT... 30NE 0SE 0SW 30NW.
34 KT... 90NE 45SE 30SW 90NW.

FORECAST VALID 07/1200Z 18.9N 50.9W
MAX WIND 55 KT...GUSTS 65 KT.
50 KT... 30NE 0SE 0SW 30NW.
34 KT... 90NE 45SE 30SW 90NW.

FORECAST VALID 08/0000Z 19.7N 53.5W
MAX WIND 60 KT...GUSTS 75 KT.
50 KT... 50NE 30SE 20SW 50NW.
34 KT...100NE 60SE 45SW 100NW.

FORECAST VALID 08/1200Z 20.5N 56.0W
MAX WIND 65 KT...GUSTS 80 KT.
50 KT... 50NE 30SE 20SW 50NW.
34 KT...100NE 60SE 45SW 100NW.

FORECAST VALID 09/1200Z 22.5N 60.5W
MAX WIND 70 KT...GUSTS 85 KT.
50 KT... 60NE 35SE 25SW 50NW.
34 KT...120NE 75SE 50SW 100NW.

EXTENDED OUTLOOK. NOTE...ERRORS FOR TRACK HAVE AVERAGED NEAR 225 NM
ON DAY 4 AND 300 NM ON DAY 5...AND FOR INTENSITY NEAR 20 KT EACH DAY

OUTLOOK VALID 10/1200Z 25.0N 64.0W
MAX WIND 70 KT...GUSTS 85 KT.

OUTLOOK VALID 11/1200Z 27.0N 66.5W
MAX WIND 70 KT...GUSTS 85 KT.

REQUEST FOR 3 HOURLY SHIP REPORTS WITHIN 300 MILES OF 17.4N 45.1W

NEXT ADVISORY AT 06/2100Z

$$
FORECASTER BROWN
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#1628 Postby RL3AO » Sun Jul 06, 2008 9:45 am

000
WTNT32 KNHC 061444
TCPAT2
BULLETIN
TROPICAL STORM BERTHA ADVISORY NUMBER 14
NWS TPC/NATIONAL HURRICANE CENTER MIAMI FL AL022008
1100 AM AST SUN JUL 06 2008

...BERTHA MOVING BRISKLY WESTWARD AND FORECAST TO STRENGTHEN...

AT 1100 AM AST...1500Z...THE CENTER OF TROPICAL STORM BERTHA WAS
LOCATED NEAR LATITUDE 17.4 NORTH...LONGITUDE 45.1 WEST OR ABOUT 1185
MILES...1905 KM...EAST OF THE NORTHERN LEEWARD ISLANDS.

BERTHA IS MOVING TOWARD THE WEST NEAR 21 MPH...33 KM/HR. A GENERAL
WEST-NORTHWESTWARD MOTION WITH A GRADUAL DECREASE IN FORWARD SPEED
IS EXPECTED DURING THE NEXT COUPLE OF DAYS...AS BERTHA REMAINS OVER
THE WATERS OF THE CENTRAL TROPICAL ATLANTIC. IT IS MUCH TOO EARLY
TO DETERMINE IF BERTHA WILL EVENTUALLY AFFECT ANY LAND AREAS.

MAXIMUM SUSTAINED WINDS ARE NEAR 50 MPH...85 KM/HR...WITH HIGHER
GUSTS. GRADUAL STRENGTHENING IS FORECAST DURING THE NEXT COUPLE OF
DAYS.

TROPICAL STORM FORCE WINDS EXTEND OUTWARD UP TO 85 MILES...140 KM
FROM THE CENTER.

ESTIMATED MINIMUM CENTRAL PRESSURE IS 1000 MB...29.53 INCHES.

REPEATING THE 1100 AM AST POSITION...17.4 N...45.1 W. MOVEMENT
TOWARD...WEST NEAR 21 MPH. MAXIMUM SUSTAINED WINDS...50 MPH.
MINIMUM CENTRAL PRESSURE...1000 MB.

THE NEXT ADVISORY WILL BE ISSUED BY THE NATIONAL HURRICANE CENTER AT
500 PM AST.

$$
FORECASTER BROWN
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#1629 Postby NDG » Sun Jul 06, 2008 9:47 am

I compared Sat pics from earlier this morning when the scan was taken, the LLC was to the south of most convection, so at the current time I would think that is at 17.3N at the most.
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Re:

#1630 Postby Javlin » Sun Jul 06, 2008 9:47 am

RL3AO wrote:000
WTNT32 KNHC 061444
TCPAT2
BULLETIN
TROPICAL STORM BERTHA ADVISORY NUMBER 14
NWS TPC/NATIONAL HURRICANE CENTER MIAMI FL AL022008
1100 AM AST SUN JUL 06 2008

...BERTHA MOVING BRISKLY WESTWARD AND FORECAST TO STRENGTHEN...

AT 1100 AM AST...1500Z...THE CENTER OF TROPICAL STORM BERTHA WAS
LOCATED NEAR LATITUDE 17.4 NORTH...LONGITUDE 45.1 WEST OR ABOUT 1185
MILES...1905 KM...EAST OF THE NORTHERN LEEWARD ISLANDS.

BERTHA IS MOVING TOWARD THE WEST NEAR 21 MPH...33 KM/HR. A GENERAL
WEST-NORTHWESTWARD MOTION WITH A GRADUAL DECREASE IN FORWARD SPEED
IS EXPECTED DURING THE NEXT COUPLE OF DAYS...AS BERTHA REMAINS OVER
THE WATERS OF THE CENTRAL TROPICAL ATLANTIC. IT IS MUCH TOO EARLY
TO DETERMINE IF BERTHA WILL EVENTUALLY AFFECT ANY LAND AREAS.

MAXIMUM SUSTAINED WINDS ARE NEAR 50 MPH...85 KM/HR...WITH HIGHER
GUSTS. GRADUAL STRENGTHENING IS FORECAST DURING THE NEXT COUPLE OF
DAYS.

TROPICAL STORM FORCE WINDS EXTEND OUTWARD UP TO 85 MILES...140 KM
FROM THE CENTER.

ESTIMATED MINIMUM CENTRAL PRESSURE IS 1000 MB...29.53 INCHES.

REPEATING THE 1100 AM AST POSITION...17.4 N...45.1 W. MOVEMENT
TOWARD...WEST NEAR 21 MPH. MAXIMUM SUSTAINED WINDS...50 MPH.
MINIMUM CENTRAL PRESSURE...1000 MB.

THE NEXT ADVISORY WILL BE ISSUED BY THE NATIONAL HURRICANE CENTER AT
500 PM AST.

$$
FORECASTER BROWN


Hey is Wxman57=forcaster Brown good class WX57
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Re: Tropical Storm Bertha in Central Atlantic

#1631 Postby RL3AO » Sun Jul 06, 2008 9:49 am

TROPICAL STORM BERTHA DISCUSSION NUMBER 14
NWS TPC/NATIONAL HURRICANE CENTER MIAMI FL AL022008
1100 AM EDT SUN JUL 06 2008

A SERIES OF MICROWAVE OVERPASSES THIS MORNING SHOW THAT BERTHA HAS
CHANGED LITTLE IN ORGANIZATION DURING THE PAST 24 HOURS. QUIKSCAT
DATA FROM 0852 UTC INDICATE THAT THE MAXIMUM WINDS REMAIN ABOUT 45
KT...WHICH AGREES WITH THE LATEST DVORAK INTENSITY ESTIMATES.
HOWEVER...RECENT VISIBLE SATELLITE IMAGES REVEAL AN INCREASE IN
CONVECTION WHICH MAY FORETELL AN INCREASE IN STRENGTH. SSTS UNDER
BERTHA HAVE INCREASED TO AROUND 26 CELSIUS AND ARE EXPECTED TO WARM
A COUPLE OF DEGREES DURING THE NEXT 2 DAYS. SHEAR IS FORECAST TO
REMAIN LOW...SO GRADUAL STRENGTHENING IS EXPECTED DURING THE NEXT
48 HOURS AND BERTHA COULD BECOME A HURRICANE DURING THAT TIME.
LATER IN THE FORECAST PERIOD...IT IS DIFFICULT TO DETERMINE EXACTLY
WHAT EFFECT AN UPPER-LEVEL TROUGH OVER THE WESTERN ATLANTIC WILL
HAVE ON THE CYCLONE. IF IT REMAINS IN PLACE...THE TROUGH WOULD
PRODUCE AN INCREASE IN SOUTHWESTERLY SHEAR. SOME OF THE GLOBAL
MODELS SUGGEST A WEAKENING OF THE TROUGH HOWEVER...WHICH WOULD KEEP
BERTHA IN A MORE FAVORABLE ENVIRONMENT. DUE TO THESE UNCERTAINTIES
THE INTENSITY FORECAST BEYOND 3 DAYS KEEPS BERTHA AT THE SAME
STRENGTH.

BERTHA CONTINUES MOVING RAPIDLY WESTWARD OR 280/18 KT. A
WEST-NORTHWESTWARD TRACK WITH A REDUCTION IS FORWARD SPEED IS
EXPECTED DURING THE NEXT DAY OR TWO. THERE IS A LITTLE LESS SPREAD
IN THE MODELS THIS MORNING...WITH THE MAJORITY OF THE GUIDANCE
SHOWING A MORE NORTHWESTWARD TURN IN 2-3 DAYS AS THE RIDGE OVER THE
WESTERN ATLANTIC BEGIN TO WEAKEN. THE HWRF CONTINUES TO INSIST ON
THE TURN OCCURRING MUCH SOONER...WHILE THE UKMET REMAINS THE
WESTERNMOST MODEL BUT WITH A WEAKENED TROPICAL CYCLONE OR EVEN AN
OPEN WAVE. THE OFFICIAL TRACK HAS BEEN ADJUSTED EASTWARD...BUT IT
REMAINS LEFT OF MOST OF THE GUIDANCE AND ALSO LEFT OF THE MODEL
CONSENSUS.


FORECAST POSITIONS AND MAX WINDS

INITIAL 06/1500Z 17.4N 45.1W 45 KT
12HR VT 07/0000Z 18.0N 47.8W 50 KT
24HR VT 07/1200Z 18.9N 50.9W 55 KT
36HR VT 08/0000Z 19.7N 53.5W 60 KT
48HR VT 08/1200Z 20.5N 56.0W 65 KT
72HR VT 09/1200Z 22.5N 60.5W 70 KT
96HR VT 10/1200Z 25.0N 64.0W 70 KT
120HR VT 11/1200Z 27.0N 66.5W 70 KT

$$
FORECASTER BROWN
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Re: Tropical Storm Bertha in Central Atlantic

#1632 Postby Blown Away » Sun Jul 06, 2008 9:49 am

At 11am, 17.4N/45.1W, that is 66 miles W from the NHC Sat 11pm 12 hr forecast. That's quite a bit of error for a 12hr forecast from the NHC.
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#1633 Postby robbielyn » Sun Jul 06, 2008 9:49 am

Well finally..... A map that shows why this storm has no choice but to go nw eventually. I kept asking for an explanation and couldn't get one. Thanks wxman57 for that high pressure map you did. That was all I wanted to know.
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Re: Tropical Storm Bertha in Central Atlantic

#1634 Postby cycloneye » Sun Jul 06, 2008 9:51 am

Image
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Re: Tropical Storm Bertha in Central Atlantic

#1635 Postby TheShrimper » Sun Jul 06, 2008 9:53 am

If the NHC's coordinates are correct, the convection is running ahead and to the north of the LLC.
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Re: Tropical Storm Bertha in Central Atlantic

#1636 Postby jlauderdal » Sun Jul 06, 2008 9:56 am

MiamiensisWx wrote:
jlauderdal wrote:And based on the maps and the track I predict a substantial decrease in temper and number of posts. For those of you that like power outages and destruction you will have to wait for the next system. Happy Hurricane Hunting.

Huh?! I thought you stated the majority of south FL members weren't -removed-!

What was the impetus for you to insert the bolded tibit?


Its not showing up as bold on my screen, I would edit and turn the bold off but I dont even see it as bold. My post speaks for itself, no bolding required.
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Re: Tropical Storm Bertha in Central Atlantic

#1637 Postby cycloneye » Sun Jul 06, 2008 9:57 am

Recon for tuesday afternoon at 2 PM EDT.

000
NOUS42 KNHC 061440
WEATHER RECONNAISSANCE FLIGHTS
CARCAH, NATIONAL HURRICANE CENTER, MIAMI, FL.
1000 AM EDT SUN 06 JULY 2008
SUBJECT: TROPICAL CYCLONE PLAN OF THE DAY (TCPOD)
VALID 07/1100Z TO 08/1100Z JULY 2008
TCPOD NUMBER.....08-036

I. ATLANTIC REQUIREMENTS
1. NEGATIVE RECONNAISSANCE REQUIREMENTS.
2. SUCCEEDING DAY OUTLOOK.
A. POSSIBLE AIR FORCE FLIGHT ON TS BERTHA,
8/18Z, 20N 57W AND CONTINUED 12 HRLY FIXES.

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#1638 Postby Chacor » Sun Jul 06, 2008 9:58 am

NOUS42 KNHC 061440
WEATHER RECONNAISSANCE FLIGHTS
CARCAH, NATIONAL HURRICANE CENTER, MIAMI, FL.
1000 AM EDT SUN 06 JULY 2008
SUBJECT: TROPICAL CYCLONE PLAN OF THE DAY (TCPOD)
VALID 07/1100Z TO 08/1100Z JULY 2008
TCPOD NUMBER.....08-036

I. ATLANTIC REQUIREMENTS
1. NEGATIVE RECONNAISSANCE REQUIREMENTS.
2. SUCCEEDING DAY OUTLOOK.
A. POSSIBLE AIR FORCE FLIGHT ON TS BERTHA,
8/18Z, 20N 57W AND CONTINUED 12 HRLY FIXES.


II. PACIFIC REQUIREMENTS
1. NEGATIVE RECONNAISSANCE REQUIREMENTS.
2. SUCCEEDING DAY OUTLOOK.....NEGATIVE.
SMR
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Re: Tropical Storm Bertha in C Atlantic=Recon at 7/8/08 at 18z

#1639 Postby MiamiensisWx » Sun Jul 06, 2008 9:59 am

5 a.m. EDT:

BERTHA IS MOVING TOWARD THE WEST NEAR 22 MPH...35 KM/HR. A GENERAL
WEST-NORTHWESTWARD MOTION WITH A GRADUAL DECREASE IN FORWARD SPEED
IS EXPECTED DURING THE NEXT COUPLE OF DAYS...AS BERTHA REMAINS OVER
THE WATERS OF THE CENTRAL TROPICAL ATLANTIC. IT IS MUCH TOO EARLY
TO DETERMINE IF BERTHA WILL EVENTUALLY AFFECT ANY LAND AREAS.

http://www.nhc.noaa.gov/archive/2008/al02/al022008.public.013.shtml?

11 a.m. EDT:

BERTHA IS MOVING TOWARD THE WEST NEAR 21 MPH...33 KM/HR. A GENERAL
WEST-NORTHWESTWARD MOTION WITH A GRADUAL DECREASE IN FORWARD SPEED
IS EXPECTED DURING THE NEXT COUPLE OF DAYS...AS BERTHA REMAINS OVER
THE WATERS OF THE CENTRAL TROPICAL ATLANTIC. IT IS MUCH TOO EARLY
TO DETERMINE IF BERTHA WILL EVENTUALLY AFFECT ANY LAND AREAS.

http://www.nhc.noaa.gov/text/refresh/MIATCPAT2+shtml/061444.shtml
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#1640 Postby Chacor » Sun Jul 06, 2008 9:59 am

By the way, maybe the title should be updated slightly. Recon is not set to go, it's only a possible fix.
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