ATL: PALOMA - Tropical Depression - Discussion

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wxman57
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Re: ATL: PALOMA - Tropical Storm - Discussion

#261 Postby wxman57 » Thu Nov 06, 2008 6:48 pm

Sanibel wrote:If that's the eye on shortwave IR it just passed very close to the buoy on its west side. I'd estimate it missed the buoy by 10-20 miles and is currently hurricane near the eyewall.


That does look to be an eye now. Definitely moving east of due north, right of NHC track. I'd say we do have a hurricane now.

Special statement just out - hurricane now.
Last edited by wxman57 on Thu Nov 06, 2008 6:51 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: ATL: PALOMA - Hurricane - Discussion

#262 Postby cycloneye » Thu Nov 06, 2008 6:50 pm

000
WTNT32 KNHC 062347
TCPAT2
BULLETIN
HURRICANE PALOMA INTERMEDIATE ADVISORY NUMBER 5A
NWS TPC/NATIONAL HURRICANE CENTER MIAMI FL AL172008
700 PM EST THU NOV 06 2008

...PALOMA RAPIDLY STRENGTHENS INTO A CATEGORY 1 HURRICANE...


AT 700 PM EST...0000Z...THE CENTER OF HURRICANE PALOMA WAS
LOCATED NEAR LATITUDE 16.9 NORTH...LONGITUDE 81.7 WEST OR ABOUT 165
MILES...270 KM...SOUTH OF GRAND CAYMAN AND ABOUT 280 MILES...450 KM
...WEST-SOUTHWEST OF MONTEGO BAY JAMAICA.

PALOMA IS NOW MOVING TOWARD THE NORTH NEAR 12 MPH...19 KM/HR. THIS
GENERAL MOTION IS EXPECTED TO CONTINUE TONIGHT AND MOST OF DAY ON
FRIDAY...WITH A GRADUAL TURN TOWARD THE NORTHEAST FORECAST TO OCCUR
LATE FRIDAY AND ON SATURDAY.

MAXIMUM SUSTAINED WINDS HAVE INCREASED TO NEAR 75 MPH...120
KM/HR...WITH HIGHER GUSTS. PALOMA IS NOW A CATEGORY 1 HURRICANE ON
THE SAFFIR-SIMPSON HURRICANE SCALE. PALOMA CONTINUES TO RAPIDLY
ORGANIZE AND ADDITIONAL STRENGTHENING IS LIKELY. PALOMA IS EXPECTED
TO BECOME A CATEGORY 2 HURRICANE ON FRIDAY.
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#263 Postby CrazyC83 » Thu Nov 06, 2008 6:58 pm

Actually, not a special statement but the normal intermediate advisory as it was timed well for that.
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#264 Postby CrazyC83 » Thu Nov 06, 2008 7:01 pm

The next data set (up to 2350Z) from that buoy should be coming out soon. That will give us a better handle on the intensity and pressure.
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#265 Postby WmE » Thu Nov 06, 2008 7:03 pm

It's looking really good for a storm this late in the season. Quite scary. :eek:
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Re: ATL: PALOMA - Hurricane - Discussion

#266 Postby Just Joshing You » Thu Nov 06, 2008 7:03 pm

How fast from Depression to Cane? 15 hours?
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Re: ATL: PALOMA - Hurricane - Discussion

#267 Postby Hurricanewatcher2007 » Thu Nov 06, 2008 7:04 pm

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#268 Postby CrazyC83 » Thu Nov 06, 2008 7:05 pm

15 hours operationally, probably will be 18 hours in the best track.
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#269 Postby Just Joshing You » Thu Nov 06, 2008 7:09 pm

How fast was Omar? Same time? What is with this year and rapidly strengthening storms...
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#270 Postby Cainer » Thu Nov 06, 2008 7:13 pm

Woah, that eye came out of nowhere! Lets see... 50 MPH in 15 hours. So if the trend keeps up, we could possibly have a Cat. 3 on our hands this time tomorrow. These things sure do spin up fast.
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#271 Postby Tampa Bay Hurricane » Thu Nov 06, 2008 7:21 pm

Holy Crap!! This morning before my anatomy lab it was a depression and NOW
a HURRICANE!!!!! Man this thing is bombing out! It could hit category 3 easily
by Saturday IMO....Prayers for those in Cuba/Grand Cayman/Jamacia/Haiti/
The Dominican Republic, etc.
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#272 Postby Tampa Bay Hurricane » Thu Nov 06, 2008 7:26 pm

Hopefully shear weakens it...so it has mercy on those in its path.
If shear is strong enough it can keep this at 110 mph or below...
but this really bears watching for islands of the caribbean
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#273 Postby HURAKAN » Thu Nov 06, 2008 7:28 pm

Image

I see you.
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#274 Postby AdamFirst » Thu Nov 06, 2008 7:29 pm

A great late season finale for the season. Good luck to Jamacia, the Caymans and Cuba.
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#275 Postby HURAKAN » Thu Nov 06, 2008 7:44 pm

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Re:

#276 Postby gatorcane » Thu Nov 06, 2008 7:48 pm

Tampa Bay Hurricane wrote:Holy Crap!! This morning before my anatomy lab it was a depression and NOW
a HURRICANE!!!!! Man this thing is bombing out! It could hit category 3 easily
by Saturday IMO....Prayers for those in Cuba/Grand Cayman/Jamacia/Haiti/
The Dominican Republic, etc.


As I commented a couple of days ago, this may be one of the "BIG" ones of the season -- indeed and sadfully for Cuba/Bahamas it is becoming true.
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#277 Postby Gustywind » Thu Nov 06, 2008 7:55 pm

Be Blessed, i pray for all the islands in the possible path , what a finish this year :eek: damn not the best outcome if this trends is confirmed... :( :cry: . I hope the very best, bear watching it all my carib friends...
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Re: ATL: PALOMA - Hurricane - Discussion

#278 Postby MGC » Thu Nov 06, 2008 9:31 pm

Paloma didn't waste any time becoming a hurricane today for sure....and, from the looks of that microwave sat image Paloma looks to be forming a healthy inner core. As such it would not be out of the question for Paloma to achieve major hurricane status. How quickly this happens if at all is the 64 thousand dollar question. Looks like the Cayman Islands are in for a blow. I was there on a cruise in January and was talking to a local merchant about Ivan and the surge. Doubt Paloma can duplicate Ivan's feat but I'd be getting prepared for some strong winds there soon......MGC
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#279 Postby Tampa Bay Hurricane » Thu Nov 06, 2008 9:33 pm

Question about South Florida: Pro-mets or anyone- please help me understand this meteorologically:

the current national weather forecasts show light winds saturday, but if there is a 1020 mb high just NE of FL (as visible on any of the loops when you click "fronts" box it shows the high over the SE US) and a sub-980 Paloma to the SE by Saturday, that would cause a pressure gradient driven strong easterly breeze, wouldn't it?...a couple weeks ago we had
breezy conditions 20-30 mph with just TD 16 in the caribbean and a high north of florida...
so how come the forecasts are not accounting for the easterly wind due to the pressure gradient? Are the
cold front driven SW surface wind vectors (east of front) cancelling out the NE wind Vectors? In that case I could see the light wind
forecast verifying...
:rarrow: (cold front wind) and :larrow: pressure gradient wind, do they cancel?
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Re:

#280 Postby MiamiensisWx » Thu Nov 06, 2008 9:42 pm

Tampa Bay Hurricane wrote:Hopefully shear weakens it...so it has mercy on those in its path.
If shear is strong enough it can keep this at 110 mph or below...
but this really bears watching for islands of the caribbean

There is essentially no difference between 95 kt/110 mph and a major hurricane. Category 2 intensity is still very intense...

I strongly believe Paloma will attain major hurricane intensity. Satellite data (and AMSUB/microwave imagery) has been revealing the presence of a relatively small inner core. Upper level analysis reveals a textbook dual outflow pattern, with a southwesterly upper level jet on the NW quadrant and northwesterly wind vectors on the eastern flank of an established 250-300 mb UL anticyclone. Divergence is excellent to outstanding at all levels, as is low level convergence. Westerly wind vectors southwest of a deep upper low over the central North Atlantic (and the cutoff low/coastal storm near the Carolinas) is also aiding the well defined poleward outflow channel. The synoptic pattern and Paloma's position on the southwestern flank of the UL anticyclone is a classical situation for rapid intensification to major hurricane intensity, especially with the small inner core and developing CDO. The 12Z 500 mb analysis reveals that height contours are higher than progged by the 06Z operational GFS over the Southeast, in accordance with the deeper, more amplified upper level trough over the Plains. This factor and the TC's earlier turn will likely negate the effects of shear from the approaching trough and the associated jet maximum. Overall, this scenario is slightly reminescent of Omar, since the TC's angle of approach (in relation to the heading of the strengthening upper level wind vectors) will likely mitigate the upper level shear.

The only negative factor inhibiting greater intensification of Paloma is the convection northeast of the inner core, which has been hindering greater low level inflow. The convection has been induced by the strong ascent in the vicinity, which is producing a lifting mechanism. However, very recent GOES satellite imagery reveals that new adjacent convection is developing closer to the center, as the inner core approaches the region of greatest forced ascent. Additionally, the convection appears to be "merging" with the developing CDO. It is probable that this will finally aid low level inflow to the inner core, especially as the convection farther northeast diminishes overnight. The spectre of rapid intensification is also raised by the steepening lapse rates overnight and cool mid level temperatures, which are typically cooler later in the season, aiding the formation of deeper convection.

I have always believed the initial intensity forecasts for the Cuban landfall of Paloma were underestimated, based on the preceding data and the fact that the acceleration in speed will reduce shear on the back side (a la Charley, Wilma, etc.). It is also noted that Michelle 2001 (if I recall correctly) was originally forecasted to weaken to a marginal major hurricane (~100-105 kt?) prior to Cuban landfall, based on some early model guidance/intensity forecasts, which misjudged some aspects of the upper level pattern.

Interestingly, the higher heights to the northwest and the system's earlier turn raises the possibility of a brief reduction in forward speed near the Cayman Islands as the trough approaches, followed by another acceleration toward Cuba. I feel that the Caymans could experience the strongest hit since Ivan 2004, and the TC will likely (in my view) be ~100 kt as it traverses the vicinity of the islands. It's quite possible that this estimate could be conservative as well. I believe the Cuban landfall intensity may be Category 2 intensity, followed by rapid weakening and a very quick transition to an extratropical (baroclinic) system over the southern Bahamas/TCI as it interacts with the strong westerlies.
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