BOC Next Week...........

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Stormsfury
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#21 Postby Stormsfury » Thu Sep 04, 2003 12:43 pm

JtSmarts wrote:There were six GOM storms last year and so far 5 this year, is that some type of record?


It's definitely a new precedent in regards to years that the GOM had 6 storms. And I must say I don't put out specific regional forecasts, but I would have bet on the GOM being less active based on that information.

In regards to the past, the 1851-1910 re-analysis project came out with some startling information and I've posted some of those findings in the another thread here on Storm2k. More archived information and details on past storm (including the re-analysis project, updated tropical storm and hurricane totals, better categorization of the 1851-1910 storms all can be found at my website ... http://www.stormsfury1.com Tropical Weather Page (Archived Section)

SF
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#22 Postby Stormsfury » Thu Sep 04, 2003 12:47 pm

The thing about the BOC is real iffy. The only way I can see that happening is if Henri gets shunted off ENE once it crosses Florida. Only the GFS has suggested that, however, the new run posted by SF shows it coming back around day 6 or 7 (e.g. moves out ENE, comes back WSW). The ECMWF actually takes Henri back SW across Florida and into the Southern Gulf. I'm not buying that, but I think the models are sensing a trapped system off the Southeast Coast which may come back west (GA/SC) if the high building north of it is remotely strong.


I saw that run last night from the EURO and had the same reaction you did about the #12, in which I thought was very weird also. But it's pretty unanimous that once Fabian exits stage right, a ridge will build in behind exiting Fabian and leaves the steering currents very weak in that vicinity.

I'm still not exactly sure what the GFS is picking up on, but some ensemble members from the GFS and the Canadian were picking up on something in that region as well ... too early to sound an alarm, but definitely worth watching for a trend to show up.
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#23 Postby Lindaloo » Thu Sep 04, 2003 12:49 pm

Hmmm... Camille in 69, Frederic in 79... 10 years apart. Elena in 85.... six years apart... Georges in 98 13 years apart. I do not see a pattern at all. It has been five years since the MS Coast has seen a cane. Hopefully, we can go aother 20 without seeing one.
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#24 Postby Steve » Thu Sep 04, 2003 2:13 pm

Linda,

Frank P over at flhurricane said that Isidore was the worst he had seen (tidal surge wise) since Camille. He lives on Beach Blvd. in Biloxi and counts surge based on steps up to his house. Obviously they didn't get hurricane conditions for Isidore, but things were still hairy. You guys took the brunt of Georges over in Jackson (and Harrison of course) County.

Steve
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Stormsfury....BOC Development shown by Models?

#25 Postby KatDaddy » Thu Sep 04, 2003 2:14 pm

Just looking for clarification. Thanks.
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Bill was enough for me.

#26 Postby Stormcenter » Thu Sep 04, 2003 2:16 pm

Bill was enough for me this year in SE La.
We don't need anything else, TS or whatever.
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#27 Postby Lindaloo » Thu Sep 04, 2003 2:52 pm

I know that Izzy brought lots of water. Places that have never flooded before were under water. Camille was not an ordinary surge, she produced a tidal wave that went way inland. Georges storm surge was unreal. The water came in from the west and swept across to the east. He also flooded this area. Took lots of folks by surprise. I still believe alot of the flooding associated with Georges was from Mobile, AL opening their flood gates. There is a lawsuit filed against them for that.
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#28 Postby GalvestonDuck » Thu Sep 04, 2003 2:57 pm

Georges was AWFUL and I wasn't even close to the coast! I was driving down south from KY to TX during my move here. I was on I-20 and I could not believe the heavy rain pouring down and the strong wind blowing my car. I had to pull over for a while til the rainband passed.
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#29 Postby Agua » Thu Sep 04, 2003 3:15 pm

Steve wrote:Linda,

Frank P over at flhurricane said that Isidore was the worst he had seen (tidal surge wise) since Camille. He lives on Beach Blvd. in Biloxi and counts surge based on steps up to his house. Obviously they didn't get hurricane conditions for Isidore, but things were still hairy. You guys took the brunt of Georges over in Jackson (and Harrison of course) County.

Steve


I live across from Biloxi on the east side of the bay in Ocean Springs. The surf was extremely impressive the following morning. I think the tides were around 6 above normal.
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#30 Postby CajunMama » Thu Sep 04, 2003 3:30 pm

Steve....you don't need a storm to have a day off from work...just call in sick! SLA doesn't need any more storms...our coast is eroding and pretty soon Lafayette'll be in the gulf!
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#31 Postby Frank P » Thu Sep 04, 2003 3:31 pm

Hi gang, let me give you the facts as far as my house on the beach in Biloxi is concerned... Camille put 16 inches of water in the house... my house is 20 feet above sea level... surveyed for insurance purposes... Fredrick very little tidal surge, winds screaming out of the n and nw.... Elena put a 8 foot surge in front of my house, just at the base of the first step of the seawall, which has 3 steps before getting into the highway 90. Elena came in at a steep angle which was one of the reasons for the lower surge. Georges also put about the same 8 foot surge as Elena, however we were never in the NE quadrant, Pascagoula got at least a 10-12 foot surge. The Chevon plant in Goula had more water from Georges than Camille, and was shut down for at least two months... Isadore put water on the first step of the seawall, which equates to about a 8.5 to 9 foot tidal surge. Also washed out a brand new high dollar pier from the MS Collesium, which is one mile to the east of me, right on the beach in my front yard... Oh, I did collect some nice treated 2X10's the next day I might add... even got interviewed by the local TV station as I recapped what the storm was like while I sat in my lawn chair in the front yard as it blew in...
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#32 Postby Agua » Thu Sep 04, 2003 3:51 pm

Yeah, over around Fountainbleu, they had some darned impresive surge and wave action I understand. Georges was clocked at, I *think* 109mph at landfall, making it a strong Cat 2, but there were some tough, tough wind gusts in that storm. I remember laying on my kitchen floor sometime between midnight and 4a.m. and a gust blew through there for about 4-10 seconds that was so strong, it would have flattened any wooden structure standing along the coast if it had gone on for 30 minutes or so.

I've seen comments which summarily brush off the 175 mph gust recorded at Keesler based on the fact that the wind measuring device (anonmeter?? dunno) is of a type that has a design defect, though I've seen no tests which indicate that it was in fact an erroneous measurement. It wouldn't surprise me at all if the gust I referred to was, in fact, that strong.
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#33 Postby Frank P » Thu Sep 04, 2003 3:57 pm

Yeah I remember that gust too being recorded but in my area I doubt if we even got anything above 100 mph... another big problem with Georges if you remember was that the eye hovered over the city of Biloxi for 3-4 hours... heck I went outside, picked up all the broken limbs and then cut my grass during the entire time we were in the eye.... hehe... My next door neighbor couldn't figure out why my yard had so little debris as compared to his... Pascagoula was in the NE quadrant the entire time we were in the eye...... they got pounded senseless to say the least.... another reason for the high surge in that area as well...
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#34 Postby Agua » Thu Sep 04, 2003 4:00 pm

Oh yeah, and all those curious green dragonflies that were apparently caught up in the eye. Remember?
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#35 Postby Frank P » Thu Sep 04, 2003 4:08 pm

Yeah, now that you mentioned it, I do remember a lot of bugs... During the eye in Elena I remember seeing birds flying all over the place... I guess with each eye, you get something different... hehe
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#36 Postby Lindaloo » Thu Sep 04, 2003 4:26 pm

You two did not hear about the tidal wave from Georges in Gautier? A witness said it had to of been 20 feet high. It washed away some buildings over by the old kreosote plant. They never did find one of the railroad crossing lights. There was a 50 foot sailboat across the road on Graveline. Some friends live right in the curve and their houses suffered damage. Part of his neighnors house washed up in his back yard.

Chevron was definitely put out of business. One lady said when she was in there cleaning up that there was some sort of a wide trail left behind. She seemed to think it was one of those huge swamp snakes. Ever seen one? I have, they are huge. Mike Byrd (sheriff) ran over it with his Moss Point patrol car when he as an officer there. lol.

I saw that interview Frank P... I had no idea that was you. lol.
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ETA

#37 Postby wxman57 » Thu Sep 04, 2003 4:52 pm

Well, I don't consider the ETA much of a tropical model, and all the "improvments" some have made in this model in the past year have really made it about worthess along the Gulf coast. I notice the ETA also develops the upper low over the Bahamas, perhaps it gets hung up on upper lows and develops a sfc reflection, as it is doing in the BOC?

As for the GFS (some web sites can't let the old MRF name go), the 12Z GFS doesn't seem to show anything but a weak area of convergence across the northern BOC on day 4 moving north toward the northern Gulf coast around day 5 or so. I suppose anything is possible this time of year, but it's probably only a slight chance at this time. Most likely just increased daytime tstms across the northern Gulf coast.

If you mention every single possibility (like JB does every day), then you're usually right when something develops.

Oh, and the ChevronTexaco refinery in Pascagoula is/was a customer of ours. During Georges, I told them 2 days before landfall to prepare for a 12 ft storm surge or a bit more, as we had forecast Georges to hit near Biloxi/Gulfport and NOT New Orleans (as Nash Roberts and Dr. Bill had also forecast correctly). I asked how high their levee was and they said 12 ft. Last we heard from them the night Georges hit, water was entering their control room and they were having to break out windows up high to let the fumes out as they stood on their equipment.

Teddy Mathews, one of the shift supervisors there, told me that he found shrimp in his desk drawer during the clean-up.

My mother, on Sioux Bayou in Gautier got 4+ feet of water in her home about 2 miles north of Hwy. 90.
Last edited by wxman57 on Thu Sep 04, 2003 4:56 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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#38 Postby Frank P » Thu Sep 04, 2003 4:54 pm

Well I knew Gautier got pounded pretty bad as I have several friends who live over there and rode out the storm... but I have not heard about the 20' surge.... sounds like a hurricane story to me... more like ... "the older I get, the better I was... "hehe.. storm surges, like fishing stories get higher with time... LOL

Interview was too funny, looked like a beach bum, no shave, hat, old torn shirt... looked like a hurricane refugee...
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#39 Postby Agua » Thu Sep 04, 2003 5:04 pm

Lindaloo wrote: huge swamp snakes. Ever seen one? I have, they are huge.


???? How "huge"? I've seen a grandaddy moccasin [probably 6-8 ft in length and 15" - 18" circumfrence (7" - 8" diameter)] from my days in central Mississippi but I've pretty much avoided getting around wooded / swampy areas since I've been down here on the coast (10 years).
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#40 Postby Agua » Thu Sep 04, 2003 5:11 pm

Frank P wrote: Interview was too funny, looked like a beach bum, no shave, hat, old torn shirt... looked like a hurricane refugee...


Hehh... I look like that every weekend by Sunday evening. :P
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