2014 EPAC Season

This is the general tropical discussion area. Anyone can take their shot at predicting a storms path.

Moderator: S2k Moderators

Forum rules

The posts in this forum are NOT official forecasts and should not be used as such. They are just the opinion of the poster and may or may not be backed by sound meteorological data. They are NOT endorsed by any professional institution or STORM2K. For official information, please refer to products from the National Hurricane Center and National Weather Service.

Help Support Storm2K
Message
Author
User avatar
Yellow Evan
Professional-Met
Professional-Met
Posts: 16143
Age: 27
Joined: Fri Jul 15, 2011 12:48 pm
Location: Henderson, Nevada/Honolulu, HI
Contact:

Re: Re:

#101 Postby Yellow Evan » Sat Apr 19, 2014 3:07 pm

Kingarabian wrote:
Yellow Evan wrote:
CrazyC83 wrote:Hurricanes and Easter seem to go together like snow and the 4th of July. Of all major holidays it is probably the LEAST likely to have tropical activity. At least in the Northern Hemisphere.


Well, the CMC does show something at the end of the run, but it's in fantasy land probs, and that's well past Easter

The killer for EPAC basin crossers has been cool waters around Hawaii. Let's see if that changes this year.


The Great Hawaiian shear is also a main killer. Topography also makes it hard to hit Hawaii from the east, since a storm approaching Maui and Oahu has to interact with the Big Island, which is mountainous.
0 likes   

User avatar
Kingarabian
S2K Supporter
S2K Supporter
Posts: 15980
Joined: Sat Aug 08, 2009 3:06 am
Location: Honolulu, Hawaii

Re: Re:

#102 Postby Kingarabian » Sat Apr 19, 2014 4:35 pm

Yellow Evan wrote:
The Great Hawaiian shear is also a main killer. Topography also makes it hard to hit Hawaii from the east, since a storm approaching Maui and Oahu has to interact with the Big Island, which is mountainous.


Shear is a killer yes, but don't forget that maybe the past 4 storms to threaten Hawaii have all gone annular.

But I agree. Striking Hawaii and remaining a Hurricane from the west instead of the south is really hard.

But I'm pretty that Daniel of 2006, Flossie of 2007, Felicia of 2009, and Flossie of 2013 would all love a crack at Hawaii in strong to super El-Nino conditions.

Hurricane Neki in 2009 was forcasted by the GFS to hit the Hawaiian Islands from the south but it took too long to develop.
0 likes   
RIP Kobe Bryant

User avatar
Yellow Evan
Professional-Met
Professional-Met
Posts: 16143
Age: 27
Joined: Fri Jul 15, 2011 12:48 pm
Location: Henderson, Nevada/Honolulu, HI
Contact:

Re: Re:

#103 Postby Yellow Evan » Sat Apr 19, 2014 4:53 pm

Kingarabian wrote:
Yellow Evan wrote:
The Great Hawaiian shear is also a main killer. Topography also makes it hard to hit Hawaii from the east, since a storm approaching Maui and Oahu has to interact with the Big Island, which is mountainous.


Shear is a killer yes, but don't forget that maybe the past 4 storms to threaten Hawaii have all gone annular.

But I agree. Striking Hawaii and remaining a Hurricane from the west instead of the south is really hard.

But I'm pretty that Daniel of 2006, Flossie of 2007, Felicia of 2009, and Flossie of 2013 would all love a crack at Hawaii in strong to super El-Nino conditions.

Hurricane Neki in 2009 was forcasted by the GFS to hit the Hawaiian Islands from the south but it took too long to develop.


Flossie 13 didn't go annular as it was a strong TS. Felicia 09 did occur in a pretty strong el nino. Daniel 06 got killed due to shear, and was moving too slowly. I don't think it even hit 150W.

As for Neki 09, that did hit the NW island group as a weakening TS. Not the main islands though. Neki was a WPAC-like monsoonal of origin, but it had almost the right setup to make it just didn't. Lana 09 had an Iniki-setup trough wise, but was way to weak (it was late July so troughs don't dig that deep). Flossie 07 is the only who in a super El Nino, would come close to Hawaii as a decent-strength tropical cyclone (Though due to topography it would have weakened into the TS near South Point probs).

Our last super El Nino did not get any Hawaii threats whatsoever. However, I think that was the wrong kind of setup for a Hawaii landfall (it had due with ITCZ if I had to make a guess). 1982-83 had 4 storms hit Hawaii (Daniel and Iwa in 1982, and Gil and Raymond in 1983), and that was also a super El Nino.
0 likes   

User avatar
Yellow Evan
Professional-Met
Professional-Met
Posts: 16143
Age: 27
Joined: Fri Jul 15, 2011 12:48 pm
Location: Henderson, Nevada/Honolulu, HI
Contact:

#104 Postby Yellow Evan » Sat Apr 19, 2014 7:39 pm

Image

Wind shear looked quite below normal the first 3 month of the year. Went above normal in March, but appears on its way down this month and the past week has tanked quite a bit. Only 20 knots right now. Not too horrible for late April.

Ill compare them with some recent years below:

Image

2010 had epic shear in the winter and above average shear for most of the season, though it was near or below when MJO came around in June and August.

Image

2009 was quite consistently below average.

Image

Ditto with 2006. So, yes El Nino years do actually lead to lower shear. Also noticed how shear tends to be above normal in the winter. My guess is that it's a PDO/jet stream (PDO is warm this year) thing. I can't show 1997 actually (only goes back to 2000).

In summary, wind shear does not appear to be a problem this year. However, this post is NOT am official forecast and should not be used as such. They are just the opinion of the poster and may or may not be backed by sound meteorological data. They are NOT endorsed by any professional institution or storm2k.org. For official information, please refer to the NHC and NWS products.
0 likes   

hurricanes1234
Category 5
Category 5
Posts: 2907
Joined: Sat Jul 28, 2012 6:19 pm
Location: Trinidad and Tobago

#105 Postby hurricanes1234 » Sun Apr 20, 2014 7:44 pm

If the wind shear is low, maybe this could allow for more activity this year.

Not official.
0 likes   
PLEASE NOTE: With the exception of information from weather agencies that I may copy and paste here, my posts will NEVER be official, since I am NOT a meteorologist. They are solely my amateur opinion, and may or may not be accurate. Therefore, please DO NOT use them as official details, particularly when making important decisions. Thank you.

User avatar
Yellow Evan
Professional-Met
Professional-Met
Posts: 16143
Age: 27
Joined: Fri Jul 15, 2011 12:48 pm
Location: Henderson, Nevada/Honolulu, HI
Contact:

Re:

#106 Postby Yellow Evan » Sun Apr 20, 2014 7:50 pm

hurricanes1234 wrote:If the wind shear is low, maybe this could allow for more activity this year.

Not official.


Odiously, but remember, it's still April. A lot can change form now till the 1st peak in July.
0 likes   

User avatar
Yellow Evan
Professional-Met
Professional-Met
Posts: 16143
Age: 27
Joined: Fri Jul 15, 2011 12:48 pm
Location: Henderson, Nevada/Honolulu, HI
Contact:

Re: 2014 EPAC Season

#107 Postby Yellow Evan » Fri Apr 25, 2014 7:30 am

Image

CMC's ghost strikes again. Not one, but two systems.
0 likes   

User avatar
Yellow Evan
Professional-Met
Professional-Met
Posts: 16143
Age: 27
Joined: Fri Jul 15, 2011 12:48 pm
Location: Henderson, Nevada/Honolulu, HI
Contact:

Re: 2014 EPAC Season

#108 Postby Yellow Evan » Fri Apr 25, 2014 10:57 pm

SST’s look quite warm. Nino 3 is near El Nino threshold and has the most correlation statistically with the EPAC.
Here’s a graph to show everyone:
Image
Some 27C waters in the GOC and 26C up to around the GOC and are close to engulfing Cabo San Lucas. In May!!!
Image

Vertical instability looks a bit above normal in all. Was below normal at that start, above normal for late Jan, crashed in Feb, went up again in March, and has remained up in April. Goodbye 2013 conditions.
Image
Here's 2011 instability graph for comparisons sake. Easy to see why it had so many intense storms. Interesting to note that vertical instability is the lowest statistically in June and July, so before the peak. Not that shocking given the lack of fronts in the basin at that time and the EPAC yet to be in full gear.

Image

Now, I have a doozy for you. 2013, which was extremely below normal even with MJO here in late June, before becoming a bit above normal for the heart of the season (maybe due to the usually northerly ITCZ). In September, vertical instability went down big time (hence explaining all the epic dry air noted after Manuel). Now, that's interesting. IMO Instability wasn't the main killer were just lucky to escape without a major until the end of Octobers. Rather, I think that storms tracks and location of ITCZ (hint: lack of Atlantic nino) prevented the storms from moving WNW, and instead parallel the coast and hence be closer to coolers SST's. This has been a known killer of all seasons since 1995, and was quite worse in 2013.

Image

2009 was way above normal, yet it got to 20 storms with a semi-low ACE. Another guess was due to the developing El Nino, there were a large number of majors due to high oceanic heat, which was conductive for rapid intensification. I wonder why it got a lot of weak TS's. NHC theorized in it's MWR that it could be storm tracks and the Modoki, which is possible.

Image

2006 was fairly above normal, so no shellshock.

There is also NAO, which apparently has some impact on landfalls (though by looking at the data, but I honestly don’t know much about NAO and its effects on the EPAC. In March 2014, NAO was positive: “2014 3 0.44”. As of landfalls, during El Nino years, more hurricanes make landfall than normal, but tropical storms seem to be about average, if not below average. I can’t find an El Nino that had a “landfall” pattern. In fact, I’ll give you 5 years where landfalls were common by EPAC standards: 1971, 1981, 1996, 2003, and 2013. Guess what happened after the first 3? Yes, a super El Nino. 2004 did not have anything more than a weak El Nino though. But ill mention something about major landfalls: They tend to be El Nino hotspots. Let’s take a look at all recent MH landfalls: 1957, 1959, 1976, 1983, 1992, 2002, 2006). Yes, there are often in El Nino’s as well.
I really struggle to find any true negative factors about the season. Even if the El Nino busts, which is highly unlikely, we have PDO to fall back on. And even then, all the main ingredients are there even aside from ENSO/PDO. I’ve already talked about El Nino, PDO, and wind shear and their respective effects on the season.
I want to try to be conservative, but I can’t help being excited.
0 likes   

supercane4867
Category 5
Category 5
Posts: 4966
Joined: Wed Nov 14, 2012 10:43 am

Re: 2014 EPAC Season

#109 Postby supercane4867 » Sat Apr 26, 2014 12:56 pm

Look what we got on the 00Z ECMWF :lol:

Image
0 likes   

User avatar
Kingarabian
S2K Supporter
S2K Supporter
Posts: 15980
Joined: Sat Aug 08, 2009 3:06 am
Location: Honolulu, Hawaii

#110 Postby Kingarabian » Sat Apr 26, 2014 3:43 pm

I think the models are hinting at a favorable MJO pulse approaching the EPAC. Not sure, maybe can someone confirm? The Euro is too conservative for it to show a system this early.
0 likes   
RIP Kobe Bryant

User avatar
Yellow Evan
Professional-Met
Professional-Met
Posts: 16143
Age: 27
Joined: Fri Jul 15, 2011 12:48 pm
Location: Henderson, Nevada/Honolulu, HI
Contact:

Re:

#111 Postby Yellow Evan » Sat Apr 26, 2014 4:01 pm

Kingarabian wrote:I think the models are hinting at a favorable MJO pulse approaching the EPAC. Not sure, maybe can someone confirm? The Euro is too conservative for it to show a system this early.


Correct.

Image

Here's the CFS week 3 forecast.

As for the Euro showing an early season system, yea that's odd. Normally phantom storms which are common during MJO pulses in late April/early May in the GFS and CMC only. Not the Euro, which is horrible in the EPAC. I don't even check them daily, like I do with the GFS.

but speaking of CMC, the've been showing this for quite a while. It's the CMC I know, but ill admit I'm starting to "buy in".

Image

GFs run isn't out (ill edit the post when it is out) if needed.
0 likes   

hurricanes1234
Category 5
Category 5
Posts: 2907
Joined: Sat Jul 28, 2012 6:19 pm
Location: Trinidad and Tobago

#112 Postby hurricanes1234 » Sat Apr 26, 2014 7:15 pm

This is interesting. I'd personally expect at least 4 major hurricanes this year due to several favourable factors, the main one of course being the high chance for El Niño. 5 major hurricanes seems very possible, and 6 cannot be ruled out. This, however, is my amateur opinion (see below).
0 likes   
PLEASE NOTE: With the exception of information from weather agencies that I may copy and paste here, my posts will NEVER be official, since I am NOT a meteorologist. They are solely my amateur opinion, and may or may not be accurate. Therefore, please DO NOT use them as official details, particularly when making important decisions. Thank you.

User avatar
Yellow Evan
Professional-Met
Professional-Met
Posts: 16143
Age: 27
Joined: Fri Jul 15, 2011 12:48 pm
Location: Henderson, Nevada/Honolulu, HI
Contact:

Re:

#113 Postby Yellow Evan » Sat Apr 26, 2014 7:47 pm

hurricanes1234 wrote:This is interesting. I'd personally expect at least 4 major hurricanes this year due to several favourable factors, the main one of course being the high chance for El Niño. 5 major hurricanes seems very possible, and 6 cannot be ruled out. This, however, is my amateur opinion (see below).


Looking at our recent El Nino seasons (since the inactive era/Gen VI began in 1995), 1997 had 7 MH's, 2002 had 6, 2005 had 6, and 2009 had 5. 2011 had 8, but that was not an El Nino. The record is 1992 (10 MH's). So, I'd say 5-7 majors are possible.

The posts in this forum are NOT official forecast and should not be used as such. They are just the opinion of the poster and may or may not be backed by sound meteorological data. They are NOT endorsed by any professional institution or storm2k.org. For official information, please refer to the NHC and NWS products.
Last edited by Yellow Evan on Sat Apr 26, 2014 11:17 pm, edited 1 time in total.
0 likes   

User avatar
Kingarabian
S2K Supporter
S2K Supporter
Posts: 15980
Joined: Sat Aug 08, 2009 3:06 am
Location: Honolulu, Hawaii

#114 Postby Kingarabian » Sat Apr 26, 2014 10:20 pm

cycloneye wrote:GFS continues to push the timeframe back and back on the Western Caribbean thing,Go figure. If anything develops it will be on the EPAC.
0 likes   
RIP Kobe Bryant

User avatar
Yellow Evan
Professional-Met
Professional-Met
Posts: 16143
Age: 27
Joined: Fri Jul 15, 2011 12:48 pm
Location: Henderson, Nevada/Honolulu, HI
Contact:

Re:

#115 Postby Yellow Evan » Sat Apr 26, 2014 11:15 pm

Kingarabian wrote:
cycloneye wrote:GFS continues to push the timeframe back and back on the Western Caribbean thing,Go figure. If anything develops it will be on the EPAC.


Honestly, I think the odds of an EPAC storm in a little over a week are stacked against it. Shear isn't super strong, but there are plenty of break spots. Much like 2013 in that the area before entering cooler waters is limited (but for different reasons, 2013 was due to displacement of the ITCZ for much of the season, this is due to the fact the SST's are not quite hurricane season ready though I do like their depth along the SOC). Also, 1st year Nino events tend to be late activity starters. And the fact that storms prior to May 15 are rare (though I suspect there are a couple pre-season missing from HURDAT).

FTR, the GFS just shows a short-lived low near CA and nothing else. Honestly, it's quite common to see ghost storms (even w/ constituency) at this time of year. 2011, 2013, and 2002 are good examples of this (in 2002 I believe there was actually an invest). Still, we are in a likely El Nino year, where crazy things do happen, so I would not rule it out.

The posts in this forum are NOT official forecast and should not be used as such. They are just the opinion of the poster and may or may not be backed by sound meteorological data. They are NOT endorsed by any professional institution or storm2k.org. For official information, please refer to the NHC and NWS products.
0 likes   

User avatar
cycloneye
Admin
Admin
Posts: 145308
Age: 68
Joined: Thu Oct 10, 2002 10:54 am
Location: San Juan, Puerto Rico

Re: 2014 EPAC Season

#116 Postby cycloneye » Sun Apr 27, 2014 5:32 am

Long range GFS for May 13 shows Amanda. Is very long range but at the same time is closer to May 15.

Image
0 likes   
Visit the Caribbean-Central America Weather Thread where you can find at first post web cams,radars
and observations from Caribbean basin members Click Here

User avatar
Yellow Evan
Professional-Met
Professional-Met
Posts: 16143
Age: 27
Joined: Fri Jul 15, 2011 12:48 pm
Location: Henderson, Nevada/Honolulu, HI
Contact:

Re: 2014 EPAC Season

#117 Postby Yellow Evan » Sun Apr 27, 2014 3:12 pm

Image

Just a closed low here. Don't take long range GFS stuff in the EPAC srsly w/o consistency.
0 likes   

User avatar
Kingarabian
S2K Supporter
S2K Supporter
Posts: 15980
Joined: Sat Aug 08, 2009 3:06 am
Location: Honolulu, Hawaii

#118 Postby Kingarabian » Sun Apr 27, 2014 5:55 pm

Agreed.

But nonetheless, models showing development this early means things are going to be favorable soon.
0 likes   
RIP Kobe Bryant

User avatar
Yellow Evan
Professional-Met
Professional-Met
Posts: 16143
Age: 27
Joined: Fri Jul 15, 2011 12:48 pm
Location: Henderson, Nevada/Honolulu, HI
Contact:

Re:

#119 Postby Yellow Evan » Sun Apr 27, 2014 7:09 pm

Kingarabian wrote:Agreed.

But nonetheless, models showing development this early means things are going to be favorable soon.


Well, it is better than the models not showing storms. The 18z GFS shows the low even weaker. Probs a phantom system.

Image

The CMC shows a TS on the early May system, but delays it and has it further west. Could be phantom given the delay IMO.
0 likes   

User avatar
cycloneye
Admin
Admin
Posts: 145308
Age: 68
Joined: Thu Oct 10, 2002 10:54 am
Location: San Juan, Puerto Rico

Re: 2014 EPAC Season

#120 Postby cycloneye » Mon Apr 28, 2014 1:09 pm

Interesting comment by Eric Blake about the MJO and the start of the season.


Eric Blake @EricBlake12 · 3h
MJO influence on start of EPac seas interesting to watch-- too far e by 5/15? If slower, than early start potential?

Image
0 likes   
Visit the Caribbean-Central America Weather Thread where you can find at first post web cams,radars
and observations from Caribbean basin members Click Here


Return to “Talkin' Tropics”

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: abajan, duilaslol, NotSparta, riapal, Sciencerocks, StormWeather, TomballEd and 48 guests