ATL: FLORENCE - Models

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NC_Cyclone
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Re: ATL: FLORENCE - Models

#2381 Postby NC_Cyclone » Sat Sep 08, 2018 2:48 pm

Blinhart wrote:
Camerooski wrote:
Blinhart wrote:

Sorry I have to disagree with you. With the possibility of the Ridge building in stronger and with a possible dip in it causing Flo to move further south, Florida I say has over a 50% chance of getting landfall, compared to 40 to 50% chance of the Carolina's getting hit, with SC a higher chance than NC.


That's ridiculous considering neither the Euro or the GFS have even come close to a FL hit.


Go back and look at all the models in the last 3 days, can't just go by the most current models, you need to look at all of them.



Uhh... no that’s not how weather works. You can’t just pull a model run from 3 days ago and say “this one” it’s not up to you. There is a reason models run multiple times per day
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Re: ATL: FLORENCE - Models

#2382 Postby Hypercane_Kyle » Sat Sep 08, 2018 2:48 pm

WAcyclone wrote:New 12z EPS run:

Image


Looks like less are showing a recurve but still showing a huge spread.
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Re: ATL: FLORENCE - Models

#2383 Postby Blinhart » Sat Sep 08, 2018 2:49 pm

You can not look at just one run of models and say that a system will do this, you need to look back at many runs over time and try to figure out what might happen, that is why I went with the percentages I said, I guess I should of said Georgia/Florida is at over 50% and a better chance than NC/SC.
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Re: ATL: FLORENCE - Models

#2384 Postby tomatkins » Sat Sep 08, 2018 2:49 pm

PandaCitrus wrote:There's actually a surprisingly strong amount of the Euro ensembles that bring Florence into Northern FL, Southern GA. If the ridge is stronger than expected, the HWRF may be on to something.

Right - one thing to note is that we are now likely in the five day window for a Florida landfall. Not that we can rule it out completely - but we are in the time frame where the models are generally getting reliable enough to narrow the potential impact zones down.
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Re: ATL: FLORENCE - Models

#2385 Postby NC_Cyclone » Sat Sep 08, 2018 2:49 pm

Evil Jeremy wrote:
NC_Cyclone wrote:
Blinhart wrote:

Sorry I have to disagree with you. With the possibility of the Ridge building in stronger and with a possible dip in it causing Flo to move further south, Florida I say has over a 50% chance of getting landfall, compared to 40 to 50% chance of the Carolina's getting hit, with SC a higher chance than NC.




So to you basically 95% of the worlds super computers are dead wrong 5 days out by Hundreds of miles... bro. The consensus is clearly zoning in on SC/NC

U.K. was the only support for Florida and that is gone.


Happens more often than you seem to think. Happens every year. Happened last year, multiple times.

That said, Florida appears *relatively* safe at the moment. But rule #1 of the tropics is there are no certainties, ever. Maybe I'll put that in my signature...



Hey that’s not a bad signature! You are right models can and will change. But consensus is tightening and Florida is t in it
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Re: ATL: FLORENCE - Models

#2386 Postby Steve » Sat Sep 08, 2018 2:49 pm

Blinhart wrote:
txwatcher91 wrote:
Aric Dunn wrote:IF anyone thinks the models have a handle on the track. just take a look at the spread just 24 to 36 hours out. that is a large difference in all the ensemble for such a small time period. they cant even nail down the next 24 hours let alone the next 5 days.


That’s because models struggle more with weak steering currents like we have right now. Once the ridge builds in the steering will be quite strong and Florence will move quickly. Models, especially the Euro, usually handle that type of steering much better. As much as people are trying to wishcast this into Florida, the reliable guidance has shifted north and puts NC/SC at highest risk for any threat. The HWRF is an outlier at this point and even the west biased UK has shifted north today which should be telling as we are getting inside 5 days. Florida still needs to watch this but the most likely impacts from Florence are the Carolinas. Balloon data tonight should be interesting but I don’t expect major changes.



Sorry I have to disagree with you. With the possibility of the Ridge building in stronger and with a possible dip in it causing Flo to move further south, Florida I say has over a 50% chance of getting landfall, compared to 40 to 50% chance of the Carolina's getting hit, with SC a higher chance than NC.


Blin,

I wouldn’t take any model hitting Florida too seriously at this point and certainly not 50%. I mean I could see you giving it 5-10%, but the unpredictable HWRF is the only thing sort of in that ballpark at this point. Time will tell, and increasing upper air information along with a decreasing time frame should be honing in on things. I don’t think this will recurve, but that’s probably a better bet based on some of the US ensembles than a hit on Florida. We are talking likely landfall next Thursday (possibly late Wednesday if it’s at the extreme south end of reliable guidance). So things should hone in as per usual.

The caution is there was some discrepancy with Gordon and the mescoscales right up to landfall. So models may show a 100 mile spread still with 30 hours left. Sometimes those are good, sometimes not. Same with the Hurricane models. I’ve seen the HWRF win the overal best output a few times, but it’s also been way, way off many more times.

Still, Florida is facing a threat as is GA, SC, NC, VA,etc. whatever anyone needs to get done or have in hand, there is plenty of time to beat the rush and be prepared.
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Re: ATL: FLORENCE - Models

#2387 Postby MrJames » Sat Sep 08, 2018 2:50 pm

meriland29 wrote:Can anyone post this "insane"GFS FV 12Z run?


Image
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Re: ATL: FLORENCE - Models

#2388 Postby txwatcher91 » Sat Sep 08, 2018 2:50 pm

NC_Cyclone wrote:
Blinhart wrote:
NC_Cyclone wrote:


So to you basically 95% of the worlds super computers are dead wrong 5 days out by Hundreds of miles... bro. The consensus is clearly zoning in on SC/NC

U.K. was the only support for Florida and that is gone.


Got one word for you. WRONG.




Show me legitimate proof of Florida having a higher chance of landfall than NC.

show me.


NO models are trending south. UK is north. Eps is north.


To be fair the HWRF did adjust south on its 12z run but everything else is the same or north. Balloon data could change things tonight so we will see what that shows... but as things currently stand the best models we have all show a tight consensus of Myrtle Beach to Cape Hatteras as the highest risk. Models also handle strong steering better than weak steering like we have now so I don’t expect major changes to the landfall zone just small refinements in who gets hit.
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Re: ATL: FLORENCE - Models

#2389 Postby Steve » Sat Sep 08, 2018 2:52 pm

meriland29 wrote:
Steve wrote:
meriland29 wrote:Can anyone post this "insane"GFS FV 12Z run?

I
You don’t have the link to tropical tidbits?

Tropical Tidbits
Dot com
Forecast models
Global
FV3-GFS



I do, but my phone is slow till I get home...but the runs you embed on the site work well .


For sure. I’m sure someone has it, but here you go. Also you might want to run the 06z one too. That was insane and one of the largest circulations in years coming up the second time. Luckily that one wasn’t going to landfall again! <— edit to say it wasn’t the 06z FV. I can’t find the run, but whatever one it was recently was still offshore on the second approach and 920s. Again, glad that’s not likely!

Here is the 12z North Atlantic view:
https://www.tropicaltidbits.com/analysi ... 90812&fh=6
Last edited by Steve on Sat Sep 08, 2018 3:02 pm, edited 2 times in total.
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Re: ATL: FLORENCE - Models

#2390 Postby BobHarlem » Sat Sep 08, 2018 2:53 pm

For what its worth the Euro ensemble members that initialized intensity closer to the actual Florence intensity are all on the right side of the ensemble tracks.
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Re: ATL: FLORENCE - Models

#2391 Postby tarheelprogrammer » Sat Sep 08, 2018 2:53 pm

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Re: ATL: FLORENCE - Models

#2392 Postby Blinhart » Sat Sep 08, 2018 2:56 pm

NC_Cyclone wrote:
Blinhart wrote:You can not look at just one run of models and say that a system will do this, you need to look back at many runs over time and try to figure out what might happen, that is why I went with the percentages I said, I guess I should of said Georgia/Florida is at over 50% and a better chance than NC/SC.




So where do you get that from? Proof. What past runs give credence OVER current runs that have much bettter data and closer timeframe and show a FL hit?

I’m dying to see it


I'm going with over 20 years of life experiences to go with it. The past 3 or 4 runs have been slowly moving S/SW for landfall, and then all of a sudden one run shows a turn to the E it is gospel, can't go with that. Models have been from Miami to OTS all the time with this system, so my guess is just as good as almost anyone else. I always side with the NHC but always look at the South and West side of the cone for where the system will go. And the cone is about to hit Florida, and look at the NAVY one it has almost all of Florida in it.
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Re: ATL: FLORENCE - Models

#2393 Postby Kingarabian » Sat Sep 08, 2018 2:59 pm

MrJames wrote:
meriland29 wrote:Can anyone post this "insane"GFS FV 12Z run?


[img]https://i.imgur.com/tCGNZ2g.gif[img]


Hell no! That's some Harvey type stuff... Makes me want to throw up.
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Re: ATL: FLORENCE - Models

#2394 Postby AdamFirst » Sat Sep 08, 2018 3:02 pm

Blinhart wrote:
I'm going with over 20 years of life experiences to go with it. The past 3 or 4 runs have been slowly moving S/SW for landfall, and then all of a sudden one run shows a turn to the E it is gospel, can't go with that. Models have been from Miami to OTS all the time with this system, so my guess is just as good as almost anyone else. I always side with the NHC but always look at the South and West side of the cone for where the system will go. And the cone is about to hit Florida, and look at the NAVY one it has almost all of Florida in it.


A voice of reason in a cacophony of hysteria...

Nobody should be calling all clear yet when potential impact is still 5-6 days away.
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Re: ATL: FLORENCE - Models

#2395 Postby meriland29 » Sat Sep 08, 2018 3:02 pm

MrJames wrote:
meriland29 wrote:Can anyone post this "insane"GFS FV 12Z run?


Image





Omg....literally, omg. And thanks all you guys for the help.
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Re: ATL: FLORENCE - Models

#2396 Postby TheDreamTraveler » Sat Sep 08, 2018 3:06 pm

euro rain totals...a lot of these areas have been hammered hard by rains all year, especially this summer. Some areas have had over 2 feet of rain or more in 90 days already in virginia, maryland and pennsylvania. Even without Florence and Gordon this was already going to be one of the wettest years on record for parts of these states.
.
Image
Last edited by TheDreamTraveler on Sat Sep 08, 2018 3:08 pm, edited 2 times in total.
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Re: ATL: FLORENCE - Models

#2397 Postby gatorcane » Sat Sep 08, 2018 3:06 pm

12Z JMA shifts way east and recurves a powerful Florence east of OBX
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Re: RE: Re: ATL: FLORENCE - Models

#2398 Postby jlauderdal » Sat Sep 08, 2018 3:07 pm

tomatkins wrote:
PandaCitrus wrote:There's actually a surprisingly strong amount of the Euro ensembles that bring Florence into Northern FL, Southern GA. If the ridge is stronger than expected, the HWRF may be on to something.

Right - one thing to note is that we are now likely in the five day window for a Florida landfall. Not that we can rule it out completely - but we are in the time frame where the models are generally getting reliable enough to narrow the potential impact zones down.
5 day nhc track error is 198 miles per nhc.gov
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Re: ATL: FLORENCE - Models

#2399 Postby tarheelprogrammer » Sat Sep 08, 2018 3:09 pm

gatorcane wrote:12Z JMA shifts way east and recurves a powerful Florence east of OBX


GFS not looking so crazy now.
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Re: ATL: FLORENCE - Models

#2400 Postby Aric Dunn » Sat Sep 08, 2018 3:09 pm

The 18Z nam is rolling. checking the Synoptics. assuming some data made it into this run... slightly weaker ridging to the north. but a good deal more ridging over the mainland..

should be interesting.
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