2021 Indicators: SST's / SAL / MSLP / Shear / Steering / Instability / Sat Images

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Re: 2021 Indicators: SST's / SAL / MSLP / Shear / Steering / Instability / Sat Images

#1021 Postby toad strangler » Fri Jul 09, 2021 5:35 pm

CFLHurricane wrote:
St0rmTh0r wrote:
toad strangler wrote:
Man, Hazelton like to keep his analysis on the conservative side too :eek:

I think all the patterns and signs point to Florida having the kind of action Louisiana had last year. Elsas track is more important than how strong she was. The same thing happened last year that showed the gulf was the hot spot now its florida.


Please don’t tease us like this. :lol:

I concur this may be a wild season, but I prefer to head into peak with low expectations.


The Florida peninsula is far too small of a parcel to be focusing in on any real heightened specific chances of CONUS landfalls. The way I see it is these models we’ve seen posted in here today are pretty damn provocative to say the least but should be taken as information for the general region that INCLUDES Florida. Not Florida itself.
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Re: 2021 Indicators: SST's / SAL / MSLP / Shear / Steering / Instability / Sat Images

#1022 Postby SFLcane » Fri Jul 09, 2021 6:50 pm

:crazyeyes: :crazyeyes:

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Re: 2021 Indicators: SST's / SAL / MSLP / Shear / Steering / Instability / Sat Images

#1023 Postby aspen » Fri Jul 09, 2021 6:54 pm


Extra strong ridging that will force storms west with less chances of recurves? Is that’s what the map is showing?
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Re: 2021 Indicators: SST's / SAL / MSLP / Shear / Steering / Instability / Sat Images

#1024 Postby SFLcane » Fri Jul 09, 2021 6:55 pm

aspen wrote:

Extra strong ridging that will force storms west with less chances of recurves? Is that’s what the map is showing?


2004… 2.0 “ IF” it’s right.
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Re: 2021 Indicators: SST's / SAL / MSLP / Shear / Steering / Instability / Sat Images

#1026 Postby toad strangler » Fri Jul 09, 2021 7:05 pm

aspen wrote:

Extra strong ridging that will force storms west with less chances of recurves? Is that’s what the map is showing?


That’s what many of these models have shown today … yes. Take the output for what it is. Signals … for the Western part of the Atlantic Basin
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Re: 2021 Indicators: SST's / SAL / MSLP / Shear / Steering / Instability / Sat Images

#1027 Postby Category5Kaiju » Fri Jul 09, 2021 7:07 pm

I can only imagine a 2004-like season but with more storms (which 2021 seems to be on track for especially if CSU's 20 NS forecast is somewhat accurate). Sprinkle in a bit of 1980, 1988, and 2007 with some very deep tropics, low latitude, long-lasting storms, and I think this is going to be a recipe for a high-impact and memorable season. Stay prepared!!
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Re: 2021 Indicators: SST's / SAL / MSLP / Shear / Steering / Instability / Sat Images

#1028 Postby SFLcane » Fri Jul 09, 2021 7:54 pm

So we have the ECM and Sips showing what could be 2004 like steering come ASO. I’d venture to say it’s quite possible our luck here in SFL could very well end if any of those Z500 predictions come close to verifying.
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Re: 2021 Indicators: SST's / SAL / MSLP / Shear / Steering / Instability / Sat Images

#1029 Postby cycloneye » Fri Jul 09, 2021 7:59 pm

I can see those annual season cancel posts pop up soon.

 https://twitter.com/weather_chest/status/1413657173276647428


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Re: 2021 Indicators: SST's / SAL / MSLP / Shear / Steering / Instability / Sat Images

#1031 Postby chaser1 » Fri Jul 09, 2021 9:21 pm

DestinHurricane wrote:From CSU:
In general, early season Atlantic hurricane activity has very little correlation with
overall Atlantic hurricane activity. However, when this activity occurs in the tropics
(south of 23.5°N), that is typically a harbinger of a very active season. Hurricane Elsa
formed in the tropical Atlantic and then tracked into the eastern Caribbean (10-20°N, 75-
60°W) at hurricane strength. Since 1900, only six other years have had eastern Caribbean
hurricanes prior to 1 August: 1926, 1933, 1961, 1996, 2005 and 2020. All six of those
years were classified as hyperactive Atlantic hurricane seasons using the NOAA Atlantic
hurricane season definition (>=160 ACE).


While I do think 2021 will be an above average season, maybe even hyperactive especially now that Cool-Neutral or La Nina looks likely during the peak months. I disagree that Elsa is a sign of an active season. All of the years they mentioned, 1926, 1933, 1961, 1996, 2005 and 2020, had long lived hurricanes in the eastern Caribbean. Elsa was able to jump to hurricane for a few hours before it weakened back down, unlike the aforementioned seasons' E Carib hurricanes. The fact that Elsa was not able to maintain hurricane intensity through the Eastern Caribbean due to wind shear doesn't necessarily point to an inactive season, I just don't think it means the season will be hyperactive (though it may be, just wont be because of Elsa). Elsa did not find very favorable conditions in the eastern Caribbean, which is expected in july, even in an above average season. Some of the most active seasons such as 2017 don't have hurricanes in the e Caribbean in July.


Your point regarding Elsa's weaker life-span is worth consideration, however I think you're missing the bigger picture. Take a look past the major hurricanes of 2005 or 1933. These were two record setting years but both seasons also had their share of "weak-sister" Tropical Storms too. I think a better view of the background state for those years (aside from how many storms) would be consideration of the length of their storm tracks. Reason being that a season of primarily short tracks would suggest TUTTS, Upper level shear, cool SST'S, regions affected by SAL or perhaps diminished relative humidity through one or more levels of the atmosphere. Any combination of these conditions can quite effectively cut down a Tropical Storm to little more then an open wave. I found Elsa's long track from the Eastern Atlantic MDR to be potentially telling.

I don't think 2021 will be the Alien Apocalypse year 2005 was, but I think the present steering (generally) in place along with an increasingly favorable background state will positively result in additional threats to Florida, Bahamas, N. Gulf and the Eastern Seaboard. That's not to suggest other regions won't be threatened. Take a moment and compare tracks and Tropical cyclone origins for 1933 and 2005, and then consider our semi permanent Atlantic ridge pattern seemingly in place now. I believe this (along with Elsa's track) offers a few clues to how this season will probably play out.
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Re: 2021 Indicators: SST's / SAL / MSLP / Shear / Steering / Instability / Sat Images

#1032 Postby Category5Kaiju » Fri Jul 09, 2021 9:34 pm

Is there a place where I could find the sst anomalies in 1933? Just curious of course
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Re: 2021 Indicators: SST's / SAL / MSLP / Shear / Steering / Instability / Sat Images

#1033 Postby captainbarbossa19 » Fri Jul 09, 2021 9:36 pm

cycloneye wrote:I can see those annual season cancel posts pop up soon.

https://twitter.com/weather_chest/status/1413657173276647428


The season is OVER!! There's so much SAL and stable conditions. Nothing is ever going to form. I will be laughing when there is NOTHING FOR THE REST OF THE SEASON!!!! HAHAHAHAHAHA!! There--your first season cancel post. :lol:
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Re: 2021 Indicators: SST's / SAL / MSLP / Shear / Steering / Instability / Sat Images

#1034 Postby Category5Kaiju » Fri Jul 09, 2021 10:26 pm

However, I do think it's important to understand that many of these season cancel posts are likely from young children or teenagers who are only beginning to aspire to have a career in wx or people who simply are not very educated into or devoted to tropical weather science and how the tropics work; which is totally fine! It's just that we should try our best to enlighten these folks and allow them to have a better understanding of why exactly seemingly unfavorable conditions at one point in the calendar year (especially July of all months) should not be an automatic signal that the season is not going to be active, especially when August or September have not even arrived yet.
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Re: 2021 Indicators: SST's / SAL / MSLP / Shear / Steering / Instability / Sat Images

#1035 Postby ElectricStorm » Fri Jul 09, 2021 10:34 pm

Personally I don't take any stock into these long-range MDR precip/track models. 2020 looked like it was going to be a huge MDR year, but only a few storms were really able to get going out there, most of them were further west. On the flip side, 2018 looked like it would be a dead MDR year and it had Cat 4 Florence and a few other hurricanes in the MDR. As far as potential tracks, it's tough to forecast a track for a storm just a few days in advance, let alone over a month away from peak season like we are now. And even if the MDR does end up being less active this year, that could just open the door for more western activity, potentially affecting the same areas devastated by last year's storms.
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Re: 2021 Indicators: SST's / SAL / MSLP / Shear / Steering / Instability / Sat Images

#1036 Postby Shell Mound » Fri Jul 09, 2021 11:11 pm

Based on observed tracks to date I could easily envision a long-tracking system tracking WNW through Hebert Box #1 en route to South Florida during ASO.
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Re: 2021 Indicators: SST's / SAL / MSLP / Shear / Steering / Instability / Sat Images

#1037 Postby captainbarbossa19 » Fri Jul 09, 2021 11:19 pm

Category5Kaiju wrote:However, I do think it's important to understand that many of these season cancel posts are likely from young children or teenagers who are only beginning to aspire to have a career in wx or people who simply are not very educated into or devoted to tropical weather science and how the tropics work; which is totally fine! It's just that we should try our best to enlighten these folks and allow them to have a better understanding of why exactly seemingly unfavorable conditions at one point in the calendar year (especially July of all months) should not be an automatic signal that the season is not going to be active, especially when August or September have not even arrived yet.


That is true that some are ignorant children. However, there are adults who also like to cause trouble and know better. I think the moderators tend to handle them quite well when they get out of line. :spam:
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Re: 2021 Indicators: SST's / SAL / MSLP / Shear / Steering / Instability / Sat Images

#1038 Postby AxaltaRacing24 » Sat Jul 10, 2021 3:22 am

I feel that the lack of season cancel this year is because there are very alarming signs that this season will be at least above average. Once you look at the activity we have left along with the steering near peak season, there is not much left to do other than simply wait for what we might be in for.
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Re: 2021 Indicators: SST's / SAL / MSLP / Shear / Steering / Instability / Sat Images

#1039 Postby toad strangler » Sat Jul 10, 2021 6:49 am

AxaltaRacing24 wrote:I feel that the lack of season cancel this year is because there are very alarming signs that this season will be at least above average. Once you look at the activity we have left along with the steering near peak season, there is not much left to do other than simply wait for what we might be in for.


The final NOAA update before the dawn of peak season will be telling. They were very similar with CSU early on.
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Re: 2021 Indicators: SST's / SAL / MSLP / Shear / Steering / Instability / Sat Images

#1040 Postby AnnularCane » Sat Jul 10, 2021 8:54 am

toad strangler wrote:
AxaltaRacing24 wrote:I feel that the lack of season cancel this year is because there are very alarming signs that this season will be at least above average. Once you look at the activity we have left along with the steering near peak season, there is not much left to do other than simply wait for what we might be in for.


The final NOAA update before the dawn of peak season will be telling. They were very similar with CSU early on.



When will that update be?

Regarding the lack of season cancel so far, well, it's only July 10. There's still time. :wink:
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