2021 Indicators: SST's / SAL / MSLP / Shear / Steering / Instability / Sat Images

This is the general tropical discussion area. Anyone can take their shot at predicting a storms path.

Moderator: S2k Moderators

Forum rules

The posts in this forum are NOT official forecasts and should not be used as such. They are just the opinion of the poster and may or may not be backed by sound meteorological data. They are NOT endorsed by any professional institution or STORM2K. For official information, please refer to products from the National Hurricane Center and National Weather Service.

Help Support Storm2K
Message
Author
User avatar
aspen
Category 5
Category 5
Posts: 8818
Joined: Sat Oct 12, 2019 7:10 pm
Location: Connecticut, USA

Re: 2021 Indicators: SST's / SAL / MSLP / Shear / Steering / Instability / Sat Images

#2681 Postby aspen » Thu Aug 19, 2021 7:14 pm

Based on the model runs of the last day, we might be looking at three more storms forming in the next 10 days:
—Ida in the MDR and recurving early (Euro operational and ensembles)
—Julian in the MDR, either recurving like Ida or being far enough south to continue west (Euro/GEFS ensembles and CMC)
—Kate in the WCar and/or Gulf of Mexico from a CAG-like feature (GFS, GEFS/Euro ensembles, CMC)

Six storms in August would be way more than I would’ve anticipated. Seems like the bell is already ringing.

If the 0/20 disturbance doesn’t become Ida, then there won’t be much of a break in the ridge to drag the following wave north. That might be one to watch in the last week of August.
5 likes   
Irene '11 Sandy '12 Hermine '16 5/15/2018 Derecho Fay '20 Isaias '20 Elsa '21 Henri '21 Ida '21

I am only a meteorology enthusiast who knows a decent amount about tropical cyclones. Look to the professional mets, the NHC, or your local weather office for the best information.

AlphaToOmega
Category 5
Category 5
Posts: 1448
Joined: Sat Jun 26, 2021 10:51 am
Location: Somewhere in Massachusetts

Re: 2021 Indicators: SST's / SAL / MSLP / Shear / Steering / Instability / Sat Images

#2682 Postby AlphaToOmega » Thu Aug 19, 2021 7:19 pm

If we get another 3 storms in August, that puts us at 11 storms. An extremely favorable September and October setup could easily get us over 25 storms by the end of this season.
0 likes   

User avatar
CyclonicFury
Category 5
Category 5
Posts: 2025
Age: 26
Joined: Sun Jul 02, 2017 12:32 pm
Location: NC
Contact:

Re: 2021 Indicators: SST's / SAL / MSLP / Shear / Steering / Instability / Sat Images

#2683 Postby CyclonicFury » Thu Aug 19, 2021 7:37 pm

AlphaToOmega wrote:If we get another 3 storms in August, that puts us at 11 storms. An extremely favorable September and October setup could easily get us over 25 storms by the end of this season.

Over 25 storms is a stretch. It's going to be very difficult to replicate 2020's record breaking storm numbers. I could see us getting near the end of the naming list though.
1 likes   
NCSU B.S. in Meteorology Class of 2021. Tropical weather blogger at http://www.cyclonicfury.com. My forecasts and thoughts are NOT official, for official forecasts please consult the National Hurricane Center.

User avatar
aspen
Category 5
Category 5
Posts: 8818
Joined: Sat Oct 12, 2019 7:10 pm
Location: Connecticut, USA

Re: 2021 Indicators: SST's / SAL / MSLP / Shear / Steering / Instability / Sat Images

#2684 Postby aspen » Thu Aug 19, 2021 7:51 pm

CyclonicFury wrote:
AlphaToOmega wrote:If we get another 3 storms in August, that puts us at 11 storms. An extremely favorable September and October setup could easily get us over 25 storms by the end of this season.

Over 25 storms is a stretch. It's going to be very difficult to replicate 2020's record breaking storm numbers. I could see us getting near the end of the naming list though.

If we get these 3 additional storms, plus 7 in September and 4 in the rest of the year (the La Niña will probably make the late season more active than normal), we’d hit 22 named storms. 20-25 is a possibility, but over 25 is unlikely unless we get a record-tying rest of the year.
0 likes   
Irene '11 Sandy '12 Hermine '16 5/15/2018 Derecho Fay '20 Isaias '20 Elsa '21 Henri '21 Ida '21

I am only a meteorology enthusiast who knows a decent amount about tropical cyclones. Look to the professional mets, the NHC, or your local weather office for the best information.

CYCLONE MIKE
Category 5
Category 5
Posts: 2183
Joined: Tue Aug 31, 2004 6:04 pm
Location: Gonzales, LA

Re: 2021 Indicators: SST's / SAL / MSLP / Shear / Steering / Instability / Sat Images

#2685 Postby CYCLONE MIKE » Thu Aug 19, 2021 8:09 pm

CyclonicFury wrote:
AlphaToOmega wrote:If we get another 3 storms in August, that puts us at 11 storms. An extremely favorable September and October setup could easily get us over 25 storms by the end of this season.

Over 25 storms is a stretch. It's going to be very difficult to replicate 2020's record breaking storm numbers. I could see us getting near the end of the naming list though.



Before I begin to believe there is a minuscule chance we could see anything close to 2020 I want to see 3 more in 10 days. That would be almost as impressive.
0 likes   

User avatar
Category5Kaiju
Category 5
Category 5
Posts: 4097
Joined: Thu Dec 24, 2020 12:45 pm
Location: Seattle

Re: 2021 Indicators: SST's / SAL / MSLP / Shear / Steering / Instability / Sat Images

#2686 Postby Category5Kaiju » Thu Aug 19, 2021 8:19 pm

WiscoWx02 wrote:
NotSparta wrote:
Shell Mound wrote:I think these two factors will combine to prevent a significant rise in strong activity during climatological the peak of the season. So far the MJO has not helped.


Hmm, I better head to the doctor. Must have imagined a TS and a hurricane in the deep tropics but it seems in reality there has been no deep tropical activity


Definitely cannot ignore Elsa and Grace forming, I agree with that. I do agree with Shellmound however that this could be a backloaded season. Sure we will see plenty of new stuff maybe not the end of this month but September for sure. But I think the real beef is going to be served in October. Been the new trend over the last several years IMO. I would even argue that the peak of last hurricane season was October and November, not September. Not saying September last year wasn't busy cause it was! However, I think October and early November took home the cake on peak activity, with all those major hurricanes. This year and last year are kinda similar as well in terms of present conditions. Just my take on it though.


In many recent years at least since 2011, the strongest hurricane of the season did not occur until after the peak season time of September 10.
1 likes   
Unless explicitly stated, all info in my posts is based on my own opinions and observations. Tropical storms and hurricanes can be extremely dangerous. Do not think you can beat Mother Nature. Refer to an accredited weather research agency or meteorologist if you need to make serious decisions regarding an approaching storm.

AlphaToOmega
Category 5
Category 5
Posts: 1448
Joined: Sat Jun 26, 2021 10:51 am
Location: Somewhere in Massachusetts

Re: 2021 Indicators: SST's / SAL / MSLP / Shear / Steering / Instability / Sat Images

#2687 Postby AlphaToOmega » Thu Aug 19, 2021 8:24 pm

Image
0 likes   

User avatar
Teban54
Category 5
Category 5
Posts: 3206
Joined: Sat May 19, 2018 1:19 pm

Re: 2021 Indicators: SST's / SAL / MSLP / Shear / Steering / Instability / Sat Images

#2688 Postby Teban54 » Thu Aug 19, 2021 10:11 pm

Shell Mound wrote:
Teban54 wrote:
Shell Mound wrote:If there is still no sign of substantial activity come Dr. Gray’s “bell-ringing” date of 20 August, then I would expect much lower numbers and seasonal ACE.

There was pretty much no substantial activity on August 20 itself and before that date (aside from mostly TS and a few weak/OTS hurricanes) in 2017, 2018, 2019 and 2020, and we all know how those years turned out.

Most hyperactive seasons either had more activity earlier in August or featured a cluster of storms developing within a few days of 20 August (or both). The former:

.........Year............# TS 1–19 August
  • 1969............3
  • 1886............2
  • 1932............1
  • 2003............1
  • 2020............2
  • 1887............2
  • 1950............2
  • 2017............3
  • 2004............4
  • 1995............2
  • 1896............4
  • 2005............2
  • 1933............2
The latter:

  • 1906: 22 August
  • 2010: 21 August
  • 1996: 19 August
  • 1964: 20 August
  • 1999: 18 August
  • 1878: 19 August
  • 1998: 19 August
  • 1926: 20 August
1961 was an exception, in that it did not feature a single NS during August, yet ended up as a hyperactive season nonetheless. September 1961 was quite active.

I reiterate: if we do not see a NS on or before 20 August and/or there is no sign of a change by that date, then I would expect a much less active year than forecast.


It's the last advisory before August 20. Since the above post was made on August 8, we have:

- Fred, which went from a remnant low to a high-end TS almost a hurricane all in the Gulf

- Grace, which hit Mexico as a hurricane and is forecast to make another landfall, possibly at a much higher intensity

- Henri, which might have been a brief hurricane and is forecast to officially become one soon, as it traverses the Gulf Stream before impacting an area that rarely sees direct landfalls

- A 0/20 AOI SW of Cabo Verde that some models hint at becoming an OTS CV storm

- Up to three more modeled storms: a Caribbean/Gulf homegrown, a storm of subtropical origin, and another wave behind the 0/20 AOI

Also, while the NHC forecasts do not show this, there's a real possibility that we see at least one major from Grace and Henri.

It's up to the reader to determine how much this post above has busted.
10 likes   

User avatar
NotSparta
Professional-Met
Professional-Met
Posts: 1670
Age: 23
Joined: Fri Aug 18, 2017 8:24 am
Location: Naples, FL
Contact:

Re: 2021 Indicators: SST's / SAL / MSLP / Shear / Steering / Instability / Sat Images

#2689 Postby NotSparta » Thu Aug 19, 2021 10:25 pm



LOL, not sure what happened. Unfortunately rather busy today and the next couple days so hopefully that issue sorts itself out tomorrow
0 likes   
This post was probably an opinion of mine, and in no way is official. Please refer to http://www.hurricanes.gov for official tropical analysis and advisories.

My website, with lots of tropical wx graphics, including satellite and recon: http://cyclonicwx.com

User avatar
Hammy
Category 5
Category 5
Posts: 5849
Age: 41
Joined: Fri May 25, 2012 5:25 pm
Contact:

Re: 2021 Indicators: SST's / SAL / MSLP / Shear / Steering / Instability / Sat Images

#2690 Postby Hammy » Thu Aug 19, 2021 10:30 pm

AlphaToOmega wrote:If we get another 3 storms in August, that puts us at 11 storms. An extremely favorable September and October setup could easily get us over 25 storms by the end of this season.


That would likely require everything after this point being as active than last year at minimum--we were already at 15 storms just a day or two into September.
0 likes   
The above post is not official and should not be used as such. It is the opinion of the poster and may or may not be backed by sound meteorological data. It is not endorsed by any professional institution or storm2k.org. For official information, please refer to the NHC and NWS products.

IcyTundra
Category 5
Category 5
Posts: 1205
Joined: Mon Jun 07, 2021 9:32 pm
Location: Dickinson, Texas

Re: 2021 Indicators: SST's / SAL / MSLP / Shear / Steering / Instability / Sat Images

#2691 Postby IcyTundra » Thu Aug 19, 2021 10:52 pm

aspen wrote:I’m starting to wonder if we’ll have to wait until September for the first sub-990 mbar storm of the season, if the African monsoon remains too strong for development east of 50W and the ridging is positioned in just the right way to put everything on a track into the islands.

Imagine if that little low pressure system near Bermuda with barely any model support ends up as a stronger system than either Fred or Grace lol


Looks like we are going to have two sub 990 MB systems with over a week left in August.
2 likes   

psyclone
S2K Supporter
S2K Supporter
Posts: 4762
Joined: Wed Aug 24, 2005 9:04 pm
Location: palm harbor fl

Re: 2021 Indicators: SST's / SAL / MSLP / Shear / Steering / Instability / Sat Images

#2692 Postby psyclone » Thu Aug 19, 2021 11:07 pm

DING!
13 likes   

User avatar
Woofde
Category 1
Category 1
Posts: 479
Joined: Tue Jul 06, 2021 11:33 am

Re: RE: Re: 2021 Indicators: SST's / SAL / MSLP / Shear / Steering / Instability / Sat Images

#2693 Postby Woofde » Thu Aug 19, 2021 11:09 pm

psyclone wrote:DING!
Certainly feels like the bell has been rung. We have two strong TS's that both are likely to become potent hurricanes.
0 likes   

AlphaToOmega
Category 5
Category 5
Posts: 1448
Joined: Sat Jun 26, 2021 10:51 am
Location: Somewhere in Massachusetts

Re: 2021 Indicators: SST's / SAL / MSLP / Shear / Steering / Instability / Sat Images

#2694 Postby AlphaToOmega » Fri Aug 20, 2021 9:46 am

Favorable signal for the rest of the season
Image
The climate models are going to have to bust in a major way if this season is not going to be hyperactive, which is very easy to achieve with this VP anomaly pattern.
0 likes   

User avatar
gatorcane
S2K Supporter
S2K Supporter
Posts: 23691
Age: 47
Joined: Sun Mar 13, 2005 3:54 pm
Location: Boca Raton, FL

Re: 2021 Indicators: SST's / SAL / MSLP / Shear / Steering / Instability / Sat Images

#2695 Postby gatorcane » Fri Aug 20, 2021 11:32 am

Here we are with the bell ringing on Aug 20th. The MDR Cape Verde region including the Caribbean is a ghost town and looks to be so for at least the next week if the models are correct. The Western Caribbean gets a pass since Grace just went through there. We can see a couple of waves but a lot of dust also keeping a lid on Cape Verde development for now:

Image
5 likes   

Shell Mound
Category 5
Category 5
Posts: 2434
Age: 32
Joined: Thu Sep 07, 2017 3:39 pm
Location: St. Petersburg, FL → Scandinavia

Re: 2021 Indicators: SST's / SAL / MSLP / Shear / Steering / Instability / Sat Images

#2696 Postby Shell Mound » Fri Aug 20, 2021 1:03 pm

Teban54 wrote:
Shell Mound wrote:
Teban54 wrote:There was pretty much no substantial activity on August 20 itself and before that date (aside from mostly TS and a few weak/OTS hurricanes) in 2017, 2018, 2019 and 2020, and we all know how those years turned out.

Most hyperactive seasons either had more activity earlier in August or featured a cluster of storms developing within a few days of 20 August (or both). The former:

.........Year............# TS 1–19 August
  • 1969............3
  • 1886............2
  • 1932............1
  • 2003............1
  • 2020............2
  • 1887............2
  • 1950............2
  • 2017............3
  • 2004............4
  • 1995............2
  • 1896............4
  • 2005............2
  • 1933............2
The latter:

  • 1906: 22 August
  • 2010: 21 August
  • 1996: 19 August
  • 1964: 20 August
  • 1999: 18 August
  • 1878: 19 August
  • 1998: 19 August
  • 1926: 20 August
...

Only Grace has met or exceeded expectations to date. The other systems have mostly underperformed, including Henri. Lots of modelled Category-2+ hurricanes failed to verify in these and other cases. The basin remains too hostile for Category-2+ systems, especially in the deep tropics. So far there is no clear indication that the MDR will become sufficiently favourable to allow for a system to form and attain major-hurricane status between the islands and West Africa, much less become a long-tracking, high-ACE producer. I don’t really care about total NS, given that those numbers tend to be artificially inflated—many “questionable” systems being classified nowadays—and do not really reflect the “intensity” of a season as well as ACE does.
0 likes   
CVW / MiamiensisWx / Shell Mound
The posts in this forum are NOT official forecasts and should not be used as such. They are just the opinion of the poster and may or may not be backed by sound meteorological data. They are NOT endorsed by any professional institution or STORM2K. For official information, please refer to products from the NHC and NWS.

User avatar
CyclonicFury
Category 5
Category 5
Posts: 2025
Age: 26
Joined: Sun Jul 02, 2017 12:32 pm
Location: NC
Contact:

Re: 2021 Indicators: SST's / SAL / MSLP / Shear / Steering / Instability / Sat Images

#2697 Postby CyclonicFury » Fri Aug 20, 2021 1:12 pm

Shell Mound wrote:
Teban54 wrote:
Shell Mound wrote:Most hyperactive seasons either had more activity earlier in August or featured a cluster of storms developing within a few days of 20 August (or both). The former:

.........Year............# TS 1–19 August
  • 1969............3
  • 1886............2
  • 1932............1
  • 2003............1
  • 2020............2
  • 1887............2
  • 1950............2
  • 2017............3
  • 2004............4
  • 1995............2
  • 1896............4
  • 2005............2
  • 1933............2
The latter:

  • 1906: 22 August
  • 2010: 21 August
  • 1996: 19 August
  • 1964: 20 August
  • 1999: 18 August
  • 1878: 19 August
  • 1998: 19 August
  • 1926: 20 August
...

Only Grace has met or exceeded expectations to date. The other systems have mostly underperformed, including Henri. Lots of modelled Category-2+ hurricanes failed to verify in these and other cases. The basin remains too hostile for Category-2+ systems, especially in the deep tropics. So far there is no clear indication that the MDR will become sufficiently favourable to allow for a system to form and attain major-hurricane status between the islands and West Africa, much less become a long-tracking, high-ACE producer. I don’t really care about total NS, given that those numbers tend to be artificially inflated—many “questionable” systems being classified nowadays—and do not really reflect the “intensity” of a season as well as ACE does.

Grace is expected to become a Category 2 hurricane today.
8 likes   
NCSU B.S. in Meteorology Class of 2021. Tropical weather blogger at http://www.cyclonicfury.com. My forecasts and thoughts are NOT official, for official forecasts please consult the National Hurricane Center.

User avatar
captainbarbossa19
Professional-Met
Professional-Met
Posts: 1092
Age: 27
Joined: Wed Aug 21, 2019 11:09 pm
Location: Beaumont, TX

Re: 2021 Indicators: SST's / SAL / MSLP / Shear / Steering / Instability / Sat Images

#2698 Postby captainbarbossa19 » Fri Aug 20, 2021 1:15 pm

Shell Mound wrote:
Teban54 wrote:
Shell Mound wrote:Most hyperactive seasons either had more activity earlier in August or featured a cluster of storms developing within a few days of 20 August (or both). The former:

.........Year............# TS 1–19 August
  • 1969............3
  • 1886............2
  • 1932............1
  • 2003............1
  • 2020............2
  • 1887............2
  • 1950............2
  • 2017............3
  • 2004............4
  • 1995............2
  • 1896............4
  • 2005............2
  • 1933............2
The latter:

  • 1906: 22 August
  • 2010: 21 August
  • 1996: 19 August
  • 1964: 20 August
  • 1999: 18 August
  • 1878: 19 August
  • 1998: 19 August
  • 1926: 20 August
...

Only Grace has met or exceeded expectations to date. The other systems have mostly underperformed, including Henri. Lots of modelled Category-2+ hurricanes failed to verify in these and other cases. The basin remains too hostile for Category-2+ systems, especially in the deep tropics. So far there is no clear indication that the MDR will become sufficiently favourable to allow for a system to form and attain major-hurricane status between the islands and West Africa, much less become a long-tracking, high-ACE producer. I don’t really care about total NS, given that those numbers tend to be artificially inflated—many “questionable” systems being classified nowadays—and do not really reflect the “intensity” of a season as well as ACE does.


Let's revisit this on September 30th. On average, the first major hurricane does not even develop until September.
8 likes   

MarioProtVI
Category 4
Category 4
Posts: 935
Age: 24
Joined: Sun Sep 29, 2019 7:33 pm
Location: New Jersey

Re: 2021 Indicators: SST's / SAL / MSLP / Shear / Steering / Instability / Sat Images

#2699 Postby MarioProtVI » Fri Aug 20, 2021 1:17 pm

Shell Mound wrote:
Teban54 wrote:
Shell Mound wrote:Most hyperactive seasons either had more activity earlier in August or featured a cluster of storms developing within a few days of 20 August (or both). The former:

.........Year............# TS 1–19 August
  • 1969............3
  • 1886............2
  • 1932............1
  • 2003............1
  • 2020............2
  • 1887............2
  • 1950............2
  • 2017............3
  • 2004............4
  • 1995............2
  • 1896............4
  • 2005............2
  • 1933............2
The latter:

  • 1906: 22 August
  • 2010: 21 August
  • 1996: 19 August
  • 1964: 20 August
  • 1999: 18 August
  • 1878: 19 August
  • 1998: 19 August
  • 1926: 20 August
...

Only Grace has met or exceeded expectations to date. The other systems have mostly underperformed, including Henri. Lots of modelled Category-2+ hurricanes failed to verify in these and other cases. The basin remains too hostile for Category-2+ systems, especially in the deep tropics. So far there is no clear indication that the MDR will become sufficiently favourable to allow for a system to form and attain major-hurricane status between the islands and West Africa, much less become a long-tracking, high-ACE producer. I don’t really care about total NS, given that those numbers tend to be artificially inflated—many “questionable” systems being classified nowadays—and do not really reflect the “intensity” of a season as well as ACE does.

What is it with the negative Nancy posts? It’s August 20 and for one Grace is very close to becoming a C2 and the only storms modeled to become C2 besides Grace and Henri were systems that did not have any recon data which makes the HWRF highly overestimate it especially in the MDR/Caribbean. We are just about heading into the peak now and all signs point to an active September. And those “questionable systems” are actually storms that we can now detect because we have better technology - it doesn’t matter how short it lives - if the NHC says it’s a TC it’s a TC. Conditions across the basin can change to a more favorable pattern without warning - look at 2017. I’m sorry but a lot of these posts haven’t verified, such as the one last year about a “wall of shear” in the Caribbean only for late season to produce its most active and most intense season there since 2010 and 2005 with three majors all C3+ (one which was most likely a C5 and one that got close). Sorry bud, 2021 ain’t as -AMO as you think.
10 likes   

tolakram
Admin
Admin
Posts: 20009
Age: 62
Joined: Sun Aug 27, 2006 8:23 pm
Location: Florence, KY (name is Mark)

Re: 2021 Indicators: SST's / SAL / MSLP / Shear / Steering / Instability / Sat Images

#2700 Postby tolakram » Fri Aug 20, 2021 1:18 pm

Shell Mound wrote:Only Grace has met or exceeded expectations to date. The other systems have mostly underperformed, including Henri. Lots of modelled Category-2+ hurricanes failed to verify in these and other cases. The basin remains too hostile for Category-2+ systems, especially in the deep tropics. So far there is no clear indication that the MDR will become sufficiently favourable to allow for a system to form and attain major-hurricane status between the islands and West Africa, much less become a long-tracking, high-ACE producer. I don’t really care about total NS, given that those numbers tend to be artificially inflated—many “questionable” systems being classified nowadays—and do not really reflect the “intensity” of a season as well as ACE does.


I reject the implication of artificially inflated. Totally reject it, and I'm tired, frankly, of not calling people out in the public forums. Technology is updated, storm counts reflect that. It's downright absurd to think 'questionable' storms should not be called storms and instead someone have to think about ... hey Bob, would we have named this 20 years ago? Gosh, if we name this will the media somehow misinterpret things?

ABSURD. I agree storm counts are rather meaningless, but I reject the accusation that these are questionable.

The NHC missions statement makes perfectly clear what their job is.
18 likes   
M a r k
- - - - -
Join us in chat: Storm2K Chatroom Invite. Android and IOS apps also available.

The posts in this forum are NOT official forecasts and should not be used as such. Posts are NOT endorsed by any professional institution or STORM2K.org. For official information and forecasts, please refer to NHC and NWS products.


Return to “Talkin' Tropics”

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: jgh and 27 guests