Tropical Wave in Bay of Campeche (Is Invest 91L)

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Re: Tropical Wave in Central Atlantic (10/50)

#301 Postby Cpv17 » Thu Aug 29, 2024 7:03 pm

cycloneye wrote:
Central Tropical Atlantic:
A tropical wave over the central Tropical Atlantic continues to
produce disorganized showers and thunderstorms that have become a
little more concentrated near its axis. Environmental conditions
appear conducive for gradual development of this system, and a
tropical depression could form by early next week while it moves
westward at 10 to 15 mph, approaching the Lesser Antilles. The
system is then forecast to continue moving westward to
west-northwestward across portions of the eastern and central
Caribbean Sea by the middle part of next week.
* Formation chance through 48 hours...low...10 percent.
* Formation chance through 7 days...medium...50 percent.


https://i.imgur.com/JnEaXrT.png


The NHC shifted this slightly further SW.
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Re: Tropical Wave in Central Atlantic (10/50)

#302 Postby Category5Kaiju » Thu Aug 29, 2024 7:05 pm

Nimbus wrote:Up to 50% and the GFS is tracking through the Yucatan channel.
Its getting harder and harder to imagine a good outcome without a hostile TUTT in the forecast to provide shear.


Iirc the last significant Atlantic hurricane in recent memory that cleanly shot through the Yucatan Channel was Michael
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Re: Tropical Wave in Central Atlantic (10/50)

#303 Postby Teban54 » Thu Aug 29, 2024 7:24 pm

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Re: Tropical Wave in Central Atlantic (10/50)

#304 Postby otowntiger » Thu Aug 29, 2024 7:33 pm


Hasn’t this season proven beyond a shadow of a doubt that hurricanes need way more than just hot water? We’ve had boiling water all season long all across the the whole basin.
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Re: Tropical Wave in Central Atlantic (10/50)

#305 Postby psyclone » Thu Aug 29, 2024 7:37 pm

Yeah but now we have a disturbance...a spark..at peak season. Something may happen here.
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Re: Tropical Wave in Central Atlantic (10/50)

#306 Postby Teban54 » Thu Aug 29, 2024 7:38 pm

otowntiger wrote:

Hasn’t this season proven beyond a shadow of a doubt that hurricanes need way more than just hot water? We’ve had boiling water all season long all across the the whole basin.

Hence why the tweet said ceiling.
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Re: RE: Re: Tropical Wave in Central Atlantic (10/50)

#307 Postby jlauderdal » Thu Aug 29, 2024 7:40 pm

otowntiger wrote:

Hasn’t this season proven beyond a shadow of a doubt that hurricanes need way more than just hot water? We’ve had boiling water all season long all across the the whole basin.
Ingredients and timing have to be aligned, fortunately its a difficult process to complete.
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Re: Tropical Wave in Central Atlantic (10/50)

#308 Postby aspen » Thu Aug 29, 2024 7:44 pm

otowntiger wrote:

Hasn’t this season proven beyond a shadow of a doubt that hurricanes need way more than just hot water? We’ve had boiling water all season long all across the the whole basin.

You’re correct, but with the increasing chances of a TC forming and passing through these high SSTs/OHC, it’s fair to point them out and bring up the potential ceiling if other environmental factors align. Too early to tell when or where they will, if anything even forms.
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Re: Tropical Wave in Central Atlantic (10/50)

#309 Postby SFLcane » Thu Aug 29, 2024 7:56 pm

18z EPS…

Image
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Re: Tropical Wave in Central Atlantic (10/50)

#310 Postby cycloneye » Thu Aug 29, 2024 8:00 pm



Hispañiola bound?
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Re: Tropical Wave in Central Atlantic (10/50)

#311 Postby MEANINGLESS_NUMBERS » Thu Aug 29, 2024 8:06 pm



Interesting to see no difference in the path between the strong storms and the weak storms.
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Re: Tropical Wave in Central Atlantic (10/50)

#312 Postby DorkyMcDorkface » Thu Aug 29, 2024 8:07 pm

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Re: Tropical Wave in Central Atlantic (10/50)

#313 Postby Teban54 » Thu Aug 29, 2024 8:12 pm


Interestingly, in the moments after this tweet, the 0z vorticity analysis came out and shows a "bridge" of vorticity connecting the two lobes. Ubuntwo mentioned earlier today that such a bridge could lead way to more successful genesis:

(Edit: Replaced image with animated GIF)

Image

Ubuntwo wrote:The reasoning behind GFS' shift is subtle, but we'll know which solution is right within ~36 hours. There are two primary lobes with this system - one near 40W and the other near 50W. The western area has more low-level vorticity, and the eastern mid level. The most likely genesis pathway is low-level vorticity developing in basically a straight line between the two (elongating the western area almost beyond recognition), the mid-level circulation drilling down and forming a low-level vortmax on the eastern edge of this strip of vorticity, and then sliding west and 'rolling' the linear strip of vorticity into a concentrated system. The GFS does drill the eastern MLC down to sfc, but it does not first form a 'bridge' of vorticity between the two lobes. It instead has that western side concentrating - meaning there's two low-level vorts. The east side still has the mid-level rotation, so the differences in steering flow cause the eastern side to slide over the western side with competition instead of bundling.

TLDR: Development (as modeled) will require convection over the next two days to either (1) remain focused to the east, and/or (2) linearly bridge the two lobes. If this is going to start bundling vorticity, it's gonna happen pretty damn soon.
Last edited by Teban54 on Thu Aug 29, 2024 9:19 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Tropical Wave in Central Atlantic (10/50)

#314 Postby Hurricane2022 » Thu Aug 29, 2024 8:19 pm

Luis and the folks in the Leeward Islands, PR and Hispaniola unfortinately needs to closely monitor the development of the system. Stay safe!
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Re: Tropical Wave in Central Atlantic (10/50)

#315 Postby Spacecoast » Thu Aug 29, 2024 8:20 pm

Beginning of 18z EC-AIFS....
It sure has been consistent over the last few runs.
Image
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Re: Tropical Wave in Central Atlantic (10/50)

#316 Postby otowntiger » Thu Aug 29, 2024 8:23 pm

Teban54 wrote:
otowntiger wrote:

Hasn’t this season proven beyond a shadow of a doubt that hurricanes need way more than just hot water? We’ve had boiling water all season long all across the the whole basin.

Hence why the tweet said ceiling.
other factors work along with SST’s to determine the ceiling height.
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Re: Tropical Wave in Central Atlantic (0/40)

#317 Postby Ubuntwo » Thu Aug 29, 2024 8:27 pm

Hammy wrote:
blp wrote:Kudos to the ICON and CMC for sniffing this out early. If I am not mistaken they too did well with Beryl. They may not be the best for track but they are certainly serving their purpose for cyclogenesis at this moment.


Hasn't the ICON been sniffing out storm after storm over the last few weeks that didn't develop though?

Gulf frontal low systems and scattered TS’s over Africa. The former is definitely a miss for the model, although we have seen lobes of mid level vorticity. The latter is a common bias of the model during an active WAM. It did have weak closed lows over the western MDR, which was actually the signal for this wave at lead times no other model saw anything.
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Re: Tropical Wave in Central Atlantic (10/50)

#318 Postby Teban54 » Thu Aug 29, 2024 8:43 pm

Note: These ensemble member counts are getting increasingly more challenging to do, because some members show delayed development until the wave reaches Western Caribbean (similar to 12z ECMWF and 18z GFS), but these lows get conflated with a few home-grown lows near Central America, especially on GEFS. I'll have to focus on genesis in Eastern Caribbean or further east.

GEFS member low pressure counts (±2, out of 31):
  • 18z 8/29: 11 (35%) as of Eastern Caribbean (a few members start in WCar)
  • 12z 8/29: 8 (26%) as of Eastern Caribbean (a few members start in WCar; Curiously, 4 members have a TS starting just north of Cuba, but ahead of the main cluster)
  • 6z 8/29: 12 (39%) as of Eastern Caribbean (a few members start in WCar)
  • 0z 8/29: 11 (35%) as of Eastern Caribbean (a few members start in WCar)
  • 18z 8/28: 13 (42%) as of Eastern Caribbean
  • 12z 8/28: 7 (23%) as of Eastern Caribbean (a few members start in WCar, but unsure if they're from this wave or a CAG)
  • 6z 8/28: 9 (29%)
  • 0z 8/28: 9 (29%)
  • 18z 8/27: 4 (13%)
  • 12z 8/27: 9 (29%)
  • 6z 8/27: 14 (45%)
  • 0z 8/27: 9 (29%)
  • 18z 8/26: 19 (61%)
  • 12z 8/26: 17 (55%)
  • 6z 8/26: 19 (61%)
  • 0z 8/26: 16 (52%)
  • 18z 8/25: 10 (32%)
  • 12z 8/25: 14 (45%)
EPS member low pressure counts (±3, out of 51):
  • 18z 8/29: 31 (61%)
  • 12z 8/29: 27 (53%)
  • 6z 8/29 (out to 144 hrs only): 30 (59%, some may not be TCs)
  • 0z 8/29: 29 (57%) as of Eastern Caribbean
  • 18z 8/28 (out to 144 hrs only): 33 (65%, some may not be TCs)
  • 12z 8/28: 18 (35%) as of Eastern Caribbean (a few members dissipate there, a few develop in WCar)
  • 6z 8/28 (out to 144 hrs only): 21 (41%, some may not be TCs)
  • 0z 8/28: 11 (22%)
  • 18z 8/27 (out to 144 hrs only): 15 (29%)
  • 12z 8/27: 14 (27%)
  • 6z 8/27 (out to 144 hrs only): 20 (39%)
  • 0z 8/27: 25 (49%)
  • 18z 8/26 (out to 144 hrs only): 27 (53%)
  • 12z 8/26: 34 (67%)
  • 0z 8/26: 22 (43%)
  • 12z 8/25: 11 (22%)
Last edited by Teban54 on Thu Aug 29, 2024 8:54 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Tropical Wave in Central Atlantic (10/50)

#319 Postby Teban54 » Thu Aug 29, 2024 8:54 pm

otowntiger wrote:
Teban54 wrote:
otowntiger wrote: Hasn’t this season proven beyond a shadow of a doubt that hurricanes need way more than just hot water? We’ve had boiling water all season long all across the the whole basin.

Hence why the tweet said ceiling.
other factors work along with SST’s to determine the ceiling height.

This is literally not what ceiling means (or at least definitely not the intended meaning in Patel's tweet), unless you defined it as the peak intensity the storm will actually reach eventually, which is very uncommon in this context.

SSTs and their anomalies matter in providing us an upper bound (best-case scenario for the storm, worst-case scenario for impacts) of how strong the storm could potentially be. Of course, every storm needs to stay clear of shear and dry air, have the right structure, have enough time to intensify, etc. in order to realize these potentials. But if SSTs in the Caribbean and Gulf were 26°C, we can confidently say the storm will almost never intensify to a major hurricane, and thus, wind impacts to land masses nearby will likely be limited.

This is certainly not the case here with widespread 30-32°C waters. Theoretically, waters in the Caribbean and Gulf now can support a sub-900 mb Cat 5. Of course, nobody is betting on that yet, even though it can technically happen. But more importantly, warmer waters make the storm more likely to rapidly intensify as long as other factors cooperate. Under the same shear and humidity conditions, you may end up with a storm going from Cat 1 to Cat 4 over 30°C waters in the same time frame as another storm from Cat 1 to Cat 3 over 28°C waters. We've seen this way too often in recent years: take any of the Gulf landfalling majors in the last 7 years, or Lee last year in an El Nino. And the difference in impact between a Cat 4 and a Cat 3 can be significant.
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Re: Tropical Wave in Central Atlantic (10/50)

#320 Postby skyline385 » Thu Aug 29, 2024 9:07 pm

18z AIFS peaks at 951mb in the GoM which is very impressive because it is a very coarse model (28km grid, for reference deterministic Euro runs at 8km grid) and one of the strongest runs i have ever seen on it.

Image

Image
Last edited by skyline385 on Thu Aug 29, 2024 9:11 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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